read these links and you too will hate

Some heap of excrement thinks that if you’re annoyed or “upset” by uncritical depiction of rape in grimdark fantasy, it’s basically your own fault because you’re too sensitive. Survivors? Toughen up, dearies, can’t live in that rose-tinted bubble.

Readers who like to live in a rose-tinted bubble without any awareness of the kind of sick shit that does happen during times of turmoil will be upset by this book. If you prefer your heroes gallant and noble, then go read a romance novel. For example, some ladies couldn’t look past the references to rape. Um. Hello. This is WAR. Rape isn’t nice but hey, if you’re living in times of civil unrest, do you honestly expect war-mongering males to politely keep their dicks in their trousers? You don’t have to like what Jorg and his merry band of adventurers get up to. Hell, I didn’t like some of the stuff they did, but I accepted it as realism. Or maybe the fact that I live in South Africa has desensitised me. It doesn’t really matter, suffice to say that I shoved aside my own sensibilities so that I could get into the story.

Isn’t she brave and edgy? Maybe she’ll grow up into an adult human being with empathy someday, but I wouldn’t hold out the hope.

Have Ronan Wills‘ glorious shredding of Kevin Hearn’s Fullmetal Druid.

On the racefail front Hearne fairs better than many of his contemporaries purely by virtue of the fact that almost everyone in Hounded is as white as humanely possible without turning transparent, but there is an eyebrow-raising scene with a (dark and scary) Indian witch spirit inhabiting the body of an aggressively Irish bar worker. Because brown people are great and all, as long as we don’t have to actually look at them.

[...]

If genre fiction at its worst can be thought of as a deep, dark hole than urban fantasy is the mariana trench. Burn it and salt the earth so nothing can ever grow again.

Let’s talk about cutting off Superman’s dick. Sounds good to me.

Turns out Orson Scott Card Has Always Been an Asshat and then some.

So we drove to a nearby city and did the honored guest thing, drinking the free booze and eating the free munchies throughout the day. The culmination of the evening was a party in Robert Adams’ suite. I had never heard of Adams, but he wrote a fairly popular manly-man rape & pillage fantasy series called “Horseclans.” He was there with another SF writer whose name you would recognize less from his SF than from a popular column he wrote for a computer magazine.

[...]

Of course this attempted assault may have had nothing to do with Card, but it’s obvious it had everything to do with Ender and Hitler: Sympathy for the Superman. I would probably find the irony much less delicious if Adams had in fact punched me. Card wrote a justification for anyone who ever has a violent thought; Elaine called him on it. And the ultimate reaction to her callout was violence.

Interested in Peter V Brett’s next installment of grimdark, The Daylight War? It is, of course, rapey, misogynistic and racist. By scum for scum and all that.

Which ties it all up to my initial response: if you liked the first two books, nothing I’ve said about the third will dissuade you from reading it. You’ve already had rapiness, perpetual womb-talk and evil foreigners enslavin’ our children and takin’ our wimmenfolk into their hay-rems. There’s nothing worse in this book, so if you’ve come this far… Enjoy.

Plagiarism wank in the YA blogosphere from last year: The Story Siren and Plagiarism. Who the fuck plagiarizes blog content, of all things? How can anyone be that starved for attention or publicity or whatever it is that Kristi Diehm thinks she’s getting? Is the YA fandom basically populated by children?

Remember Colum Paget? He’s back with another round of vile word vomit, this time more disgusting than the last.

Cause of the fall out: A tweet by someone who said, and I’m going to try to paraphrase because I don’t really want people to know who they were, “this sh*t done to women by, you know, MEN”… it represents a standard position that I commonly see online and elsewhere, and I don’t mean a standard position taken towards MEN, it’s a standard position taken towards men, women, black and white, rich and poor, believers and atheists. It’s a position that takes the actions of individuals in a group, and characterizes the whole group in those terms. Although the example I’m giving here from my recent experience is a run-in with feminists, this is not a problem with feminists. You can find this kind of statement among just about any political group, Democrat or Republican, religious or unbeliever, windows or mac. This is an attitude is common across the human race, and it’s key doorway into hate, because it leads one from being angry at the actions of a few to hating an entire group.

[...]

One argument that was put forwards in defence of this statement was that the use of MEN in capitals didn’t mean men as an entire group, it meant some men, or ‘too many’ men. I don’t really buy this argument. If I’d made a comment something like “This sh*t being done by, you know, MUSLIMS” then even if I was talking about something were the transgressors were Muslim, I think people would see my statement as tarring all Muslims with the same brush, implying they were all like the transgressors. Claims made that the comment just referred to men in the plural, because the transgressors *happened* to be men, are also disingenuous, because the transgressors are also human beings, so the comment is equivalent to “This sh*t done by, you know, HUMAN BEINGS.” A statement which I don’t think anyone would make, because it doesn’t really mean anything. For a statement in this form to make any sense it has to be singling out a group and claiming that the group identity is significant.

[...]

Again, before I get too high-and-mighty on this issue, I have to confess that I’ve done this generalizing thing in the past myself (Full disclosure: After hearing a slew of reports of misogynist events happening in what can broadly be called the ‘Islamic World’, I once wrote a blogpost decrying Islam. But Islam, like most religions, is a broad church, and though those problems exist and are ongoing, there’s vast numbers of Muslims who disapprove of the behavior and oppose it. However, if we define it as a ‘Muslim problem’ we make it harder for them to deal with the issues, because they have to waste time defending their religion from the generalized accusations).

tl;dr Colum Paget barged into a hashtag that’s a safe space for women and proceeded to shit all over it demanding that they be nicer and WHAT ABOUT THE MENZ!!! Like, he literally tried to tone-police women talking about sexual assault. Feminists tore him a new one, causing him to cry big white male crocodile tears and come up with that analogy about Muslims, since “misandry” is just as bad as Islamophobia, do you see. He then proceeds to screech that if you wimmen keep being so “inflammatory” you won’t get anything done and will just alienate good allies like him, you know. Whatever will we do then. The fun thing about Paget is that the last time he was called out on twitter, he deleted his twitter and threw a fit about how I’ll send minions to physically attack him at cons (because the most vulnerable demographic at SFF cons? Why, white men! Like Jay Lake). Who knows best about being oppressed and hated? White men! Who should get to be the ultimate authority on both, and on agitating for equality or how that should be done? White men! Who should get to tell minorities just what to do? White men!

He’s @SirEnigmatic, by the way. Keep in mind that the dude’s deeply creepy in person and likes to pester people who want nothing to do with him both online and off (especially minorities at cons, many of whom know exactly the kind of views he holds), so yeah.

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32 Comments

  1. Uhm, hate to bring this up, but the book Ronan Wills was reviewing is called Hounded, part of something called the Iron Druid series. Fullmetal Druid was just Wills’ snark title for the thing. (Though that snark title made me wonder if the MC was a cyborg of some type, given that one of the MC’s in that manga was a cyborg; otherwise I’m (minorly) wondering what that snark was referring to.)

    • Aaaacck!!! Accidently posted twice! Can the first post be deleted, since it wasn’t completed before ‘Send’ was hit? Please, with sugar on it? :). And thanks.

    • acrackedmoon

       /  February 10, 2013

      Yes, I know. I sent him the copy.

    • ronanwills

       /  February 10, 2013

      The snark isn’t really referring to anything, I just thought Fullmetal Druid sounded hilarious because I am a huge dork.

    • The Iron Druid Chronicles does get a bit better in Tricked, when Coyote plays a bigger role, but before that you have to contend with Hexed and Hammered (Hammered has definitely been the low point of the series so far), Jesus shows up as a black man, but I don’t know if that counts as racial inclusion, and there are a bunch of important Native characters in Tricked. But the first one is, yeah, pretty much all white, all the time.

      My real annoyance with this series is how Atticus lusts after every woman (including a few goddesses) he meets like horny teenager. I’m like “Come on, guy, you’re like, what, five thousand? Seriously….”

      As for Orson Scott Card, it’s a general policy of mine that I won’t touch anything even associated with him with the world’s longest pole, which is why I had to stop playing a couple video games I was enjoying, because he tainted them with his vile homophobic slime.

  2. Turns out Orson Scott Card Has Always Been an Asshat and then some.

    Man, I did not know about the ‘Hitler Hypothesis’ surrounding Speaker for the Dead that gets brought up in that post. I’m currently googling ‘Speaker for the Dead Hitler’ and reading everything that comes up, because it seems to explain a whole lot of the weirdness in that book.

  3. Seems I could count on one hand the people who demand rape in SFF that try to read an actual account of dealing with sexual assault or even fiction that gives it the attention it deserves. (Of course, sometimes the attention given might not be a lot, if the author is trying to show how it is only a part of someone’s identity that doesn’t need to be all consuming.)

    There is no right reaction of course, but it seems many of the grimdark fans demanding rape want it to happen, want it to hurt the female character, and then want it to be a lead in to revenge, turn the character evil, or be be healed magically and never have it be mentioned again.

    • welltemperedwriter

       /  February 10, 2013

      it seems many of the grimdark fans demanding rape want it to happen, want it to hurt the female character, and then want it to be a lead in to revenge, turn the character evil, or be be healed magically and never have it be mentioned again.

      And so many such stories seem all too willing to oblige them on this point.

      IDK, I keep thinking of a survivor friend of mine who later got a job counseling DV offenders. Doesn’t seem particularly bubbly or rose-tinted to me, but what do I know, I find most portrayals of rape in SFF deeply stupid and offensive…

      • I was thinking about how this demand for realism is odd given a teenage Jorg would be gutted or, at best, made to be the caddy for all the group’s equipment.

        Yeah, friends of mine were probation officers for sex offenders. Nothing very cool or fun about it that I got from what they had to deal with.

        • welltemperedwriter

           /  February 15, 2013

          It’s not just a demand for realism, though; it’s a demand for a particular narrative such as you describe, even though different women react in different ways, and there’s all kinds of other mostly unexplored reasons that a woman might seek revenge or turn evil.

          Shit, at least in “Thelma & Louise” it was a catalyst, not a raison d’etre.

    • I dunno that it’s just the grimdark fans. * is thinking of the question Seanan MacGuire got asked about one of her characters *

  4. The excerpt from The Daylight War on Tor.com was a bland D&D campaign transcript-esque chase scene that I got about a third of the way through, so it wasn’t exactly drawing my attention in the first place. Now it has my negative attention, and I’m all set to read all the reviews squeeing about how badass and awesome it is with the raised eyebrow they deserve. Thanks, ACM and Pornokitsch!

  5. “Is the YA fandom basically populated by children?”

    One would hope, seeing as it’s for teens :p. But yeah – the hope would be that teens and older children are the ones discussing the books, not that the adults discussing the books act like children. * shakes head *

    Regarding Colum Paget, I always love it when people expect you to spell out commonly accepted definitions within a field of study as if all discussions within that field of study were happening with lay people. Especially when using social media that limits characters. It’s just so helpful and not at all disruptive or silencing.

  6. What stuns me about the Prince of Thorns review is that the reviewer accepts rape as a tool of war, but then accepts a premise in which a thirteen-year-old boy can control a group of rapist mercenaries. Wouldn’t they, you know, rape him too? What with him being a child and them being rapist mercenaries and all?

    Oh, I forgot, only women have the Magical Orifices of Grimdark.

    • Or possibly it is that Only Male Persons May Have the Magical Ability to Control Rapists Three Times Their Size. but yes, same end result. Men and Women are Just Different.

  7. Regarding “Miss Rose-Tinted Bubble”… She can say this, right on the heels of this?: http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2013/02/11/outrage—but-rape-goes-on

    And goes on to excuse her views, by some bullshit about “living in South Africa”. This is typical of white middle class South Africans, right before they flee to London.

    Fuck.

    • sonamib

       /  February 11, 2013

      Yeah, a white person saying “I understand war shit because I live in South Africa” just HAS to be some racist bullshit. Really, what the fuck does she mean? South Africa isn’t a war zone. Is she afraid of all those non-pale people?

  8. “Is the YA fandom basically populated by children?”

    No, it’s mostly populated by adults in perpetual arrested development. Though, I’m slightly (only slightly) forgiving of this phenomenon. Late capitalism asks much of the subject: longer hours for less money, the minimizing of the distinction between labour and leisure, etc. The subject needs escapism that is clearly not labour, so YA fiction, with its elementary prose and simplistic negotiation of themes, provides leisure that is clearly marked as leisure. Escapism has its purposes, of course, but when that escapism constantly reproduces reprehensible ideologies such as racism, imperialism, and a whole host of other things, then I’m less forgiving of said escapism. I wouldn’t be so angry with adults who read YA if they were at least aware of the problematic aspects, but when you point them out, these adults turn into big babies.

  9. I hadn’t (before following the link about Orson Scott Card being an asshat and reading the essay it recommended) before realized just how deeply pervasive Ender’s Game morality is, not just on the internet, but all through American culture. It’s like finding the common ancestor of various species of asshole: they all read this, and identified with the protagonist on a deep level. Orson Scott Card really is the privileged nerd’s Ayn Rand, and Ender’s Game is the nerd-rage Atlas Shrugged. Thanks for leading me to the realization; I haven’t read Ender’s Game, but now I kind of want to, just so I can design and write something that turns it all upside-down someday.

  10. Nice links. More blogs to add to my collection.

  11. oakdilettante

     /  February 12, 2013

    I would like to thank this blog and commenters for sparing me from PV Brett book 2 (and now #3!) I had issues with the first one, but the concept was really cool. I used to put up with a lot of shit in SFF before I really started following you + friends, and realized, hey I don’t actually have to read racist rapey shit! yes, sad epiphany, isn’t it?

  12. WANTED: Extreme Grimdarker. SALARY: Excessive cruelty/gore. REQUIREMENTS: Must have lived in South Africa.

  13. I am reading Ender’s Game now and I’ve been kind of shocked so far, not by a compelling story but by how there seem to be thin attempts at racism here and there. I am going to finish it, but I seriously doubt I will ever pick up and OSC book again.

  14. @saajanpatel Okay, this topic is stale as fuck. But the discussion about the appeal of this stuff reminded me of Roger Ebert’s 1980 review of I Spit On Your Grave.

    “How did the audience react to all of this? Those who were vocal seemed to be eating it up. The middle-aged, white-haired man two seats down from me, for example, talked aloud, After the first rape: “That was a good one!” After the second: “That’ll show her!” After the third: “I’ve seen some good ones, but this is the best.” When the tables turned and the woman started her killing spree, a woman in the back row shouted: “Cut him up, sister!” In several scenes, the other three men tried to force the retarded man to attack the girl. This inspired a lot of laughter and encouragement from the audience.”
    http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/i-spit-on-your-grave-1980

    Atleast (and this is the best I’ll say about them) rape and revenge flicks weren’t disingenuous about this kind of shit. They didn’t pretend to justify it with “But they fall in love!/It’s character development!/The rapist is actually tortured soul! Grimdark fantasy tends to do alot of twisting and turning to make horrible rape and torture to seem like something else than it really is.

    Oh yeah, I totally want to read a book about a generic GRRM background character, except he’s a smug prick barely out of puberty. Sounds like gripping entertainment, if you came out of a time warp from the 80′s.

    • Thanks for the link. Very disturbing that someone was cheering on rape.

      I’d be curious to see how such screenings would go over now. Hopefully better but I have my doubts.

      • Ebert did review the 2010 remake of that… thing, so there’s a bit of comparison to be had.

        “Now here’s an interesting thing. There were walkouts at the packed screening I attended. Not many, maybe eight or nine. Nobody walked out in the second half; they all left in the first half. And … they were all men. Most of the audience looked like they were on dates. For conversation afterward if you see this loathsome film, here are some suggestions.

        Men, ask your dates: What bothered you more, the first or second half? Would you recommend this movie to your girlfriends? Did you enjoy it? (It’s OK, you can be honest.)

        Women, ask your dates: What part did you like the most, the first or second half? Would you recommend this movie to your sister? Why did we go to this particular film? Did you know there were two new four-star films playing in the same multiplex?”
        http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/i-spit-on-your-grave-2010

        Though I guess that can be taken as progress from the “jerk off in the theater” 70′s-80′s I suspect that people since then have learn to transfer their worst impulses to the internet so you wouldn’t know.

        • Thanks for that.

          I wish Ebert had elaborated on “phony moral equivalency”. I agree, at least ideally, with the idea that revenge is problematic…but I can’t help but feel that this is one of those ideals that is problematic when in that it polices victim reactions.

          While I would never say someone should go out and try to kill those who’ve sexually assaulted them, I also think it’s a bit easy for Ebert to make a claim that revenge stems from darker parts of our nature.

  15. @saajan / @fnich: RE: “I Spit on Your Grave,” I haven’t seen that movie, but a friend of mine, who is a rape survivor, is rather enamored with it. The original is one of her top ten favorites of all time. I’m pretty sure she’d in the “Cut him up, sister!” camp. I never discussed it too deeply with her, but I get the impression that, for her at least, there’s nothing in either fiction or film that could ever be as shocking or offensive as reality.

    • Thanks Falcon, that’s exactly what I was trying to articulate – celebrating the revenge portion is nothing like celebrating the first half. While forgiveness is the right choice for some, it isn’t necessarily the right choice for everyone.

      Our reactions toward events are on some level involuntary – if a victim is thinking about revenge that’s not something to act on given the risks and legal repercussions, but I dislike the suggestion by Ebert that there is something wrong with finding thoughts of justice/vengeance cathartic.

      • I can’t speak for Ebert, but I think the phoniness comes in with how it uses the revenge to try to legitimatize the rape portrayal with the revenge. The movie would like you to think that it’s a-okay for them to portray woman being brutalized because she “gets even” but it’s not really about the woman and her revenge, it’s just a way for them to double down on creepy exploitation and fucked up shit without completely alienating the audience.

        Actually, judging by the wiki synopses the 2010 seems significantly sketchier than the original. It does a perspective flip partway through the film to the rapists so we don’t actually follow the woman when she decides to kill the guys, the 1978 flick shows her pulling herself together before going to church before coming after them. In the newer one she just turns into another creepy horror movie slasher. I think that’s where Ebert’s “phony moral equivalency” comes from, the victim isn’t getting revenge, the psychopath that the victim turned into is.

        And good to see that the treatment of the mentally disabled character hasn’t changed in 30 fucking years. Ech.

  1. the physics of rape in the grimdark universe – magpiewhotypes

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