I’ve never understood the argument that Twilight, Eragon, or the latest YA shitfest of the week “at least gets kids reading.”
Let me explain: I’m coming at this with a vastly different perspective. I’m from a country where English is not a first language, and in this climate “at least it gets kids reading” does indeed have merit, in the sense that if it gets kids to read in English and thus get them to achieve proficiency with the language, it would be excellent and awesome, because we need that. We need to speak English to survive. We need to speak English just to get by. It’s not a choice. There are no options but “learn English, or else.” Or else suck at even navigating the Internet. Or else get treated to our daily dose of “haha, ENGRISH.” Or else.
But that is not the argument first-world Anglophones usually make.
How can anyone who loves books not take heart in seeing so many new readers huddled up with a novel? Whether it’s “Harry Potter,” “The Hunger Games” or “Infinite Jest”—does it really matter? These days, when reading fiction seems like an endangered activity, why should we begrudge the success of any book, especially one that stirs such passion with younger readers?
Getting kids to achieve proficiency in English isn’t the goal or the problem, because this is about Anglophonic children in first-world countries, not kids who need to cope in an imperialist world where speaking English is a matter of survival. No, it’s instead about privileging reading as some sacred thing that’s “endangered” (what calamity will transpire if teens stop reading shitty books…? Who knows). From my perspective a white westerner talking about how Twilight or Eragon “getting [first-world Anglophonic] kids to read” is more than a little irritating. My knee-jerk reaction, therefore, is to the tune of “Oh get over yourself.”
Besides, I don’t see why YA even needs to exist as a category.
The Needless Nature of Young Adult
Let me tell you what I read as a kid. I read, among other things, works by Anglophones (well, except for the token German in there) both in translation and not: to name names you will recognize, I read Roald Dahl, Michael Ende, Terry Pratchett, Joan D. Vinge, Marion Zimmer Bradley, Tolkien, Terry Brooks, Weis & Hickman, David Eddings, Philippa Pearce, Edith Bland, Lois Lowry.
You may notice that while some of these are writers of children’s fiction, others aren’t: Pratchett wasn’t yet writing Tiffany Aching then, and neither Bradley, Vinge, Tolkien, Brooks or many of the SFF staples are known for their kids’ or young adult fiction. The essential thing is that none of these writers is especially difficult. I had little trouble comprehending any of them. That includes, yes, Tolkien–because, no, he’s not the genius of grand complexity that many fanboys would make him out to be… fanboys who, in any case, tend to have read him as teenagers themselves.
Going back to Athena Andreadis’ The Persistent Neoteny of Science Fiction:
Beyond these strictures, however, SF/F suffers from a peculiar affliction: persistent neoteny, aka superannuated childishness. Most SF/F reads like stuff written by and for teenagers – even works that are ostensibly directed towards full-fledged adults.
[...]
Given this list, one source of the juvenile feel of most SF becomes obvious: fear of emotions; especially love in all its guises, including the sexual kind (the real thing, in its full messiness and glory, not the emetic glop that usurps the territory in much genre writing, including romance).
SF seems to hew to the long-disproved tenet that complex emotions inhibit critical thinking and are best left to non-alpha-males, along with doing the laundry.
I think we can all agree that this is largely true. Of all the writers I listed, not very many transcend this and Joan D. Vinge is the only writer that’s aged well with me, and perhaps Pratchett. Of the rest, only some of the children’s fiction would be things I might be able to reread as an adult, Dahl and Ende and possibly Pearce. The rest, though? The big names? Tolkien, Brooks, Eddings, Weis, Hickman: these are not writers I can read today and take seriously. Theirs is the kind of writing that would appeal to the audience Athena describes thus:
Coupled to that is the fact that many SF readers (some of whom go on to become SF writers) can only attain “dominance” in Dungeons & Dragons or World of Warcraft. This state of Peter-Pan-craving-comfort-food-and-comfort-porn makes many of them firm believers in girl cooties.
Not exclusively, certainly, but none of these big-name fantasy staples can be said to have mastered intellectual subtlety, ambitious prose, ambitious themes, or any morality beyond the most basic type linked to D&D alignments. It’s all dreadful writing, roughly on par with the seething mass of suck that is the YA industry today. A good deal of it is more or less safe too, in the sense that it includes little sexuality, and being outside the grimdark school means that they are fairly rape-free as well.
I’m driven to question then: why does YA even exist? There is no shortage of flatly-written lowest-common-denominator sludge, genre fiction offers plenty of that. It offers other things too, but it’s usually after we grow up that we seek out those things and become able to appreciate them. You could insist, perhaps, that YA is somehow magically more inclusive than any other category–more gay-friendly, more POC-friendly–but a glance at the biggest titles will reveal this to be the pathetic, flimsy lie that it is (overwhelmingly white, overwhelmingly thin, overwhelmingly objectified female bodies). I can name a great many SFF titles, too, that are gay-friendly and POC-friendly (sometimes even written by queer and/or chromatic authors!), but such works are always going to be the minority in any genre, and nobody is saying “at least she’s reading gay-friendly woman-positive books,” you say “at least she’s reading” period. YA, then, doesn’t seem to serve any useful purpose beyond being a publishing tool. It doesn’t say teen friendly, it doesn’t say anything important. It’s just good for marketing, and that seems to be all.
The Overabundance of, and the Cult that Worships, Mediocrity
I like to link Deepa D’s I Didn’t Dream of Dragons a lot. It seems only right to also link to Chimamanda Adichie’s The Danger of a Single Story, the transcript of which may be found here. How about a little anecdote about casting in a film class?
Do you still think “but the kid is reading” is enough? Because it isn’t.
There is an endless, inexhaustible, constantly regenerating glut of mediocre fiction–mediocre fiction that also happens to, for the most part, gel with the narrative of white/western dominance.* It privileges a white, first-world gaze above all else. Even when a given book takes place in a non-western setting it will often be tailored to the white first-world gaze, often by positioning a white perspective at front and center. This isn’t the thing you want anyone to read, let alone readers in their formative years. Once the “single story” has set in it’s hard to get rid of, short of going at it with a blowtorch of justice and perspective.
*Yes, I know, you love this series of YA by straight white authors that has a token gay Asian character somewhere in the background or something equally trivial. I don’t give a shit.
And even if you don’t care about that, let’s be real: teenagers who read YA won’t generally become adults who read Chaucer and Nabokov. They are going to become adults who read more YA, tie-in fiction, epic fantasy, romance, urban fantasy, mystery, spy thriller. Now I’m not saying you have to read Chaucer and Nabokov to be a Real Person, but there is a phenomenon I’ve observed with western attitudes toward reading (by which is often meant the reading of fiction), which in turn fuels the idea that “at least the kids are reading” must by default be a good thing:
- Reading is inherently sophisticated. It is a higher form of entertainment than TV, knitting, or gaming. It confers an automatic cachet that makes you, at some level, a superior human being to those who do not read.
- Reading is a sacred, endangered activity which must be protected. Because terrible calamity would happen if teenagers stopped reading shitty books, and where’d the YA industry be?
- Only certain kinds of reading count. Generally novels is the thing that counts. Reading non-fiction, blogs, magazines and the like do not. This is why a lot of condescending westerners like to say that Thai people don’t read.
- “Reader” is an identity. “I’m a reader” is a badge of honor, something to proclaim with pride. What are you a reader of doesn’t matter, as long as you read. I will henceforth identify these people as Readers with a capital R.
The joke becomes evident when you consider that the majority of Readers do not read things that are sophisticated (or even written well!), things that are improving, things that deserve respect. No. The majority of Readers read shit. Undiluted, worthless shit. This comprises the majority of available books to read, whether YA, SFF, genre-anything, even litfic is guilty of a certain kind of vacuous shittiness.
You’d learn more history playing Assassin’s Creed than reading Dan Brown. A girl could get a better model of empowering fantasy from playing Mass Effect or Mirror’s Edge than from reading whatever is being billed “strong female character” fantasy this week.
There is no inherent worth in reading Harry Potter and The Bourne Identity and The Da Vinci Code. These are not books that improve, these are not books that teach, these are not books that will make you more knowledgeable or more interesting or in any way a more cultured person. I imagine this would hold true for 90 titles out of Amazon’s Top 100, and I’m being generous. The top ten presently includes Fifty Shades of Gray, George R. R. Martin and Charlaine Harris.
And yet, there still exists this immediate snobbery with which Readers regard any hobby that’s not reading. The “oh, the book was better than the film” knee-jerk reaction (never mind that the book’s worthless anyway, so who gives a shit if the film’s worthless too?). No, you won’t get something like The Pale Fire from Hollywood, but what you are currently reading is probably not The Pale Fire either. Very likely your list of favorites includes a bunch of mystery, thriller, romance, YA, tie-ins, and godshit bloody fucking awful travelogues where some white goes traveling in Exoticlandia and comes back with backpacking stories to tell. There’s an endless blackhole of other equally godshit bloody fucking awful things for you, too. You can always get more mystery, thriller, romance, YA, tie-ins, travelogues. And that is what you’ll keep reading, because most people are genre-locked to fuck. Individually and personally you may not, but you are an exception.
The long and short of what I’ve spent over 1500 words saying is: reading isn’t special. If your teen is reading The Future of Us and you’re still making Star Wars novels or Stephen King the main course of your literary diet… you aren’t interesting or sophisticated. You won’t be accorded automatic respect simply because you consume text rather than moving pictures. What you are doing is swimming in an ocean of feces that’s just as fecal as the latest installment of Modern Warfare, the latest Marvel reboot, or the latest 3D rendition of Star Wars: Episode I. You’re intellectually and culturally on equal footing with non-readers who spend all their time on World of Warcraft.
Stop saying “at least it gets the kids reading.” That doesn’t mean anything. Get them reading something good. Hell, given the state of the western economy–and its dire need for skilled labor–you’ll probably do your kids a better favor by sending them to vocational school than encouraging them to read whatever Rick Riordan just churned out.
TL;DR READING CRAP IS FINE BUT LET’S NOT PRETEND IT IS SOMEHOW A MORE REFINED, CULTURALLY SOPHISTICATED ACTIVITY THAN WATCHING TV OR PLAYING WORLD OF WARCRAFT, ALSO ANGLOPHONIC PRIVILEGE. HAVE A GOOD DAY.
Milena Benini (@Milerama)
/ April 15, 2012Well, duh: there is no such thing as inherently noble entertainment activity. I do think, however, that acquainting kids with long-form reading has merits, even if purely in the technical sense (attention span is becoming shorter; I work with kids regularly and have two of my own, so I know that’s true). What the kids will take from reading anything depends largely on other factors, however. Reading great books is not enough to make anyone better; but reading shitty books isn’t going to make you stupider, either. In my opinion, narratives are largely a GIGO proposition; they can make you think, but only if you’re already willing (and able) to do so.
Personal anecdote time: when I was a kid, kids’ books were a minuscule portion of the market, so any fast reader had to either reread endlessly or else graduate fast. I was in the second group, and grew up fine, even though I first saw Hamlet when I was seven. So yes, I don’t see that YA is a necessity. I think that part of its popularity comes from that very American “think of the kids!” mentality. Because, you know, books that contain actual people doing actual things (as opposed to posed-for-effect-and-life-lesson things) might have devastating effects. Like, I don’t know, kids figuring out that life is not all about them, grownups occasionally have sex, life is messy…
On the other hand, I’ve personally got at least two kids into reading in English through Diana Wynne Jones. So it doesn’t have to be shitty to get them interested, either, even when it is aimed directly at kids. (I don’t know what your opinion on DWJ is, but I count her in the group of writers who aced the test of time.)
Next Friday
/ April 15, 2012Literature carries messages. Stupid YA literature carries stupid messages. The messages get internalized by people before they develop sufficient ability to think critically, in other words, when they are most susceptible to influence. As we see a great number of these individuals visiting this blog and sharing their valuable insights, I wouldn’t underestimate the negative effects of early genre locking.
acrackedmoon
/ April 15, 2012I don’t think reading shit books makes you actively stupid. However, let’s say that there are–broadly–two categories of bad books: the ones that are simply bad but contain good ideas, and the ones that are bad and contain stupid ideas (offensive and/or enforcing the majority view/privilege). Obviously, the second are a lot more common, and it’s what many read, especially during their formative years.
It’s fucking difficult to get rid of the impressions you form while your brain’s susceptible. It took me years to get out of the colonization of imagination, because for a long time I assumed fantasy could only be about straight white people in Europelandia. And consider that I’m neither white nor European in any way. That was damaging.
Reading shit books tends to blinker your taste. Try to convince a Bakker fanboy that he’s not high literature and that when not reading Bakker they should read books other than those by GRRM, Rothfuss and Abercrombie and you’ll find yourself with a Sisyphean task. Brian Keene filled his list of favorites with practically nothing but white male authors.
Oh I don’t think it has to be, but it’s the one occasion in which “it’s okay if it’s shit, at least they’re reading” holds water. Haven’t read Jones, btw.
Josh Gentry (@joshagentry)
/ April 15, 2012Hmmm. I’m one of those, “At least they are reading,” people. I have to think about it now. I’ll always lobby for reading compared to other entertainment, because it is my personal preference. I don’t see a problem with that. Cloaking it in terms of higher worth beyond that, probably bullshit.
Ronan Wills (@RonanWills)
/ April 15, 2012The existence of YA is an interesting facet of this whole discussion that doesn’t really get brought up a lot (or, like, at all).
I remember in primary school the kids who read voraciously (of which I was one) always read the “age-appropriate” stuff, but we read books that were intended for much older audiences as well. Then when I outgrew the kids stuff I pretty much jumped straight to books aimed at adults. I don’t ever remember a time in which I needed a separate “teen” category. By the time I had outgrown pure children’s books I was pretty much ready for everything. That’s also true of everyone I know personally and I suspect it’s true of pretty much everyone who reads as a hobby. YA is definitely serving an audience- the sales figures are indisputable in that regard- but it it serving *teenagers* something they actually need?
On the “at least they’re reading” front, if people are going to take this approach a much more worthwhile endeavor would be to get kids reading non-fiction. I still attribute much of my education to reading about science and history in my spare time. Hell even trawling through Wikipedia can be useful.
(Also, that TED talk by Adichie should be required viewing for, like, everyone)
Milena Benini (@Milerama)
/ April 15, 2012@Next Friday (sorry, twitter login doesn’t allow me to reply for some reason) Are you sure that the behaviour of multiple-initial-authors’ fans is due only to their limiting themselves to one genre? Couldn’t it be the other way around: they limit their reading because they like only stories that confirm their already formed views? Or it could be a combination of the two; narratives do form a lot of society, but they tend to work more in longterm-sense, I think.
Next Friday
/ April 15, 2012We could say that this is how society protects itself from change. It’s more comfortable to loop through the familiar tropes over and over, than to venture outside. So, yes, sticking to wish-fulfillment stories would be rather a symptom, and not the reason.
I grew up in a society where good books were not readily available and therefore they were valued. Generally, if you belonged to the educated classes, then you’d be getting used to reading good stuff. (A thousand or two books in a typical home library can jumpstart nearly anyone.) If not, you still had plenty of chances to advance, because there were no traps in form of bottomless pits of bubblegum books to slow you down. I won’t say they didn’t exist at all, but their numbers were modest. [Perhaps, if the government had thought it through, my country might have been still on the map, which may or may not be a good thing.]
When these heaps of mindless drivel are readily available, one can stay there forever. You can watch the magnitude of the demand, trends and expectations using fanfiction. Yes, there are some subversive and counterculture experiments that can be classified as transformative, but overall it’s a total lockdown.
Emil Söderman
/ April 15, 2012I’m not american, nor is english my first language, but OTOH I’m a citizen of a first-world country. So my experience is probably different than either of the two categories, but…
A) Reading is a skill. A skill that needs to be practiced. It has practical utility, and is rather crucial for modern society. Yes, there are different types of texts, and being able to read one kind of text doesen’t automatically make you proficient in deciphering all types of texts, but there’s still some universal things you learn from just well… reading texts. Understanding sentence construction, vocabulary, and simply the art of speed-reading, glossing over a sentence and seeing what it’s about, rather than having to painstakingly read every word.
We’re a literate society, and becoming more so. The level and complexity of texts we’re *required* to master is increasing at a pretty astounding rate. And while many people kind of just follow along and get updated (probably not even noticing that there’s a difference) there are groups of people who are not.
Remember that we, almost by definition, as blog-readers (and readers of a literature blog at that) are very literate people. We’re, in a sense, privilegied. My mother is a teacher, and there are LOTS of kids who are not us. Some of them have some kind of learning disability, some have dyslexia, some just never get the kind of support they should have from their family and the education system. Most learn to read in at least some capacity: Actual illiteracy is very, very rare, but the level of functional literacy varies wildly.
And prosperity, if not survival, in modern society depends to a great extent on your ability to process texts. If you have to spend an hour deciphering the latest letter from the government, that’s an hour you’re not spending on something else.
And this is in part, a class thing. And that’s another problem. There’s a reason one of the things the socialist movements (and the feminist movement, for that matter) was so keen on was book circles.
And while yeah, someone who reads Eddings doesen’t neccessarily read Nabokov, but said person is probably more likely to do so than someone who doesen’t read at all.
B) The YA genre… I kind of agree and disagree. There is, I think, room for literature about teenagers and teenage issues. (just as there’s room for literature about everyone) yes, it’s arguably overstated in western culture, but it’s still a point where looking at what other people are going through can be a good thing.
“YA” isn’t a term here, by the way, the term is “ungdomsbok”, which means something like “youth book” (as opposed to “barnbok”, “children’s book”) There’s a bit of fantasy and imported anglophonone (mostly) stuff there, and there’s some overlap between children’s books, but I’d say the archetypical “Youth book” is “Teenager X deals with Problem Y”. The quality varies of course,as per Sturgeon’s Law most of it is shit. It’s occasionally didactic, it usually has very little literary merit.
That said, I’m not certain every book should be judged by how a person would judge it today or in their current situation: If it is important/helpful in some way *at the time* I think that’s justification enough. Books don’t have to stay relevant/important to be meaningful, IMHO.
And yeah, I’m one of those who went straight from children’s literature to adult literature (via classics, SF/F and all sorts of other stuff) but then again, I was always a reader. I also know of children who never did that: For whom making the jump for the simplistically written children’s books to adult texts was simply *too hard*. I think there’s a niche for intermediate or even simplistic texts for people to use as stepping stones. Sure, not everyone needs them, but it’s useful for some people.
C) I agree that the idea that reading is somehow more *challenging* or *edifying* or *builds moral character* more than other forms of media is absolute hogwash. But reading isn’t just about the content: Reading is a skill, and one that needs to be taught, and furthermore, one that is becoming ever-more important. (maybe various voice-interface stuff is going to make it less so, but right now texts is becoming more and more important)
So In sum, yeah, I mostly disagree. You have some points, but I think you’re also not entirely understanding what people are saying/are worried about. Which isn’t helped of course by there being a lot of hogwash being spouted by various advocates of reading.
Next Friday
/ April 15, 2012I recently began reading more Amazon reviews – I go there to check the page count of my current book and one thing leads to another – and I’m astonished how many one-star reviews are from teenagers that just had that book assigned for their HS or college classes. They struggle with everything: the ideas, the references, the subject matter. It’s so obvious that there should be years of reading something other than Harry Potter before they even attempt to approach this level, yet it never occurs to them. It’s the book that is ‘boring’. One star.
acrackedmoon
/ April 15, 2012That’s a good point, though I imagine it takes a bit more than lazy hand-waving “just read okay.”
But in my case, a lot of the books I read when young did a great deal of damage (see single story, colonization of the imagination). It wasn’t even important or helpful at the time, let alone stay that way. Now as a kid I wouldn’t be happy to have my reading vetted by an adult who knows what’s best for me, but on the other hand the availability of things that were not damaging–reinforcing heteronormativity, reinforcing white power–was incredibly slim. Today teenagers have the Internet now and could probably google up “gay young adult fiction” or whatever, but most will probably still wind up reading the best-marketed, most commercial stuff. Which is exactly the books with stupid ideas.
I still don’t get the way reading fiction is fetishized.
meishuu
/ April 15, 2012I still don’t get the way reading fiction is fetishized.
Neither do I.
I was never a big reader of novels while growing up (except perhaps novels by mexican writers),my reading usually includes textbooks and papers and I learned english mostly by surfing the web. *shrugs*
the twisted spinster
/ April 15, 2012This trope is known in America as “reading is fundamental!” That was an ad slogan cooked up by the government as part of the Head Start program (I think, it’s been awhile), which was in part an effort to get minority (read: African-American) kids into reading. But the idea that reading is necessary to make you a fully human person is so ingrained in the American psyche that questioning it is almost unthinkable. Most Americans, even ones who wouldn’t pick up a novel to save their lives, believe this idea more than they believe in God. I’m one of them, or I was — a few years ago I met someone who was perfectly successful and content while not liking reading (and he wasn’t illiterate, he just didn’t care to read novels for pleasure), and I began to think about the idea that some people just aren’t Readers, as you call them, and they shouldn’t be forced to do something they enjoy.
What this “reading” thing is, as you pointed out, a specific kind of reading: reading fiction. People who don’t read fiction or anything for pleasure for that matter are more than capable of reading instruction manuals and road signs. I had a friend who was always at her son to read, specifically fiction. Part of it was Florida’s stupid public school system, which was actually by then part of the stupid Federal school system, which makes students have to read a certain number of novels from a specific list. (When I was going to school one year the school I went to had this thing where for every class — including gym — we had to read a novel and write a book report. It was the most joyless reading year I can remember — I almost quit reading thanks to that overbearing requirement.) Anyway, the kid wasn’t interested in reading and was clearly vocational school material. But the school insisted, his mother (a voracious reader of mostly fantasy trash like Robert Jordan et al) insisted, and American popular culture insisted.
As for YA, it used to be (when I was in the target market) mostly “problems of youth” novels — things about crime, gangs, drugs, racism. A lot of it was depressing, but there was also some good stuff about real things. Now it’s all fantasy romance bullshit involving slender white girls fawning all over various types of alpha males. And it has always been a marketing ploy. I mostly avoided the YA shelves and headed for the adult shelves as soon as I was “old enough” (or I read the books my parents checked out). I still read a lot of trash, but it was at least trash for grownups.
the twisted spinster
/ April 15, 2012Good lord, typed too fast: that should have been: “hey shouldn’t be forced to do something they don’t enjoy.”
acrackedmoon
/ April 15, 2012Huh. US stats aren’t transparent to me, so I wasn’t aware it was a thing that minority (ethnically, not those with learning disabilities) children had more trouble with reading skills, or were perceived to do so?
Anyway, about the fetishization of reading fiction: I wish I read more non-fiction myself, it’s a much better way to become well-informed as long as you avoid the self-aggrandizing autobiographics and those shitty travelogues. Maybe it has something to do with the way Americans privilege the academic over the practical, and why there’s a glut of the proverbial janitors with PhDs while there just aren’t enough plumbers and carpenters? Everyone’s out to get degrees in all sorts of things, but not many parents would see vocational school as a worthwhile endgame?
…gym? Why?
The “book reports made me hate reading” seems to be a common complaint, and I can certainly sympathize especially if you don’t get to pick your own books.
I recall SE Hinton’s The Outsiders with some fondness, though dunno if it’d stand up to adult scrutiny now. The shift is interesting–”problems of youth” novels are about introducing teens to adulthood, but YA novels of today are about infantilizing adult matters to a level of teenage concerns, hence immortal fairies/vampires/angels/etc going to high school and participating in high school drama-politics. Which makes adults who read YA almost exclusively even more baffling and more than a little contemptible.
the twisted spinster
/ April 15, 2012Minority communities in the US were perceived as being behind educationally for reasons stemming mostly from poverty and for non-white minorities there was the added burden of institutional racism, which despite the Civil Right movement still affects these issues (because hundreds of years of being treated like — at best — second class citizens who deserve only the leftovers don’t disappear with a wave of a magic law, despite the wishful thinking behind the idea that both liberals and conservatives spout that the US is now a “post-racial” society). There was also the issue that a lot of non-white minorities (like Native American and African American) didn’t have an academic tradition as that is recognized by the dominant European-derived culture here. The only ethnic minority that experienced both poverty and prejudice to escape this downward spiral of mistreatment, neglect, and forced ignorance was the Jewish community, because Jews traditionally revere reading and all things having to do with scholarly pursuits.
Also: one reason the African American minority was especially a target of the reading campaign was because back in the days of slavery slaves were forbidden to learn to read, so teaching a slave to read was an act of anti-slavery rebellion and so in the 20th century became part of the campaign to set to rights the damage done by slavery. Of course, there was a patronizing component to all this; campaigns by one group to “raise up” another group that is perceived to be educationally deficient will always have an element of that.
As to why write a book report for gym class — I don’t know! I think the whole book report thing was one of those kneejerk “we need a solution to put on our reports” throw-something-against-the-wall-and-see-if-it-sticks ideas that we come up with in this country because we really have no idea what to do. For example, I loved to read, my sister hated it: both our parents read all the time (mostly spy novels, but a lot of it was classy stuff like John Le Carre) — it was just a matter of personality. And actually my sister, though not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, could read just fine. She just thought it was boring. But the idea that “reading” meant you were Smart and therefore educated, instead of being a hick slob barely better than the beasts of the field, it fundamental to the American psyche.
As concerns the mad degree chase: it’s not so much that we privilege the academic; what we privilege is credentials. You get a diploma from State U, yeah okay. But if you’ve got one from YaleHarvardPrincetonWhatever, well, you’re a star! You’ve got it made, you’re Important Now, you’re part of the Inner Circle, you have connections and can impress even more VIPs and you’ll get a great job and you’ll be able to buy that bighousecarwife2.5kids. And no one will ever, ever think you’re a dumb hick. Even if you grew up in New York City, the fear of being thought a stupid, uneducated country bumpkin is strong in the White American. Actual education isn’t what we’re really into — that’s just a tad too European and might be slightly gay (the fear of being homosexual, or thought homosexual, is also very strong in American culture). Hence the “gentleman’s C” thing — you go to Yale to get that degree and become part of the elite, not to learn a bunch of stuff.
Eh, sorry for the tl;dr. I can go on and on about this stuff; it’s one of my pet peeves.
the twisted spinster
/ April 15, 2012Oh gosh, one more thing, that I meant to address and totally forgot: when the reading campaigns that I’m talking about were started, reading disabilities were not recognized as such. I’m pretty sure the idea of dyslexia and other reading disabilities had at least not entered the popular imagination until the early 80s. Before people who had trouble reading, unless they had an actual vision problem or known brain damaged (such as by lead poisoning — that was a serious problem because all house paint used to have lead in them; I recall one commercial from when I was about six or seven showing a toddler in a slum neighborhood eating paint chips from the crumbling old window and the caution was to watch your children so they don’t eat lead paint and get brain damage), were simply considered “slow” in some indefinable way. So reading disabilities that weren’t linked to deficient education and societal prejudice weren’t addressed by the literacy campaigns of the 60s and 70s.
amazinggazetteer
/ April 15, 2012What I want to say here was kind of mentioned above, but I’ll make this comment anyway.
The rate of illiteracy in kids going through North American school systems? Kind of really terrible right now. We’re talking highschool graduates who can’t write a letter, or a report, or a resume with any kind of proficiency, who get into post-secondary institutions and flounder. People who don’t know how to spell, or use basic grammar. And, as it would turn out, reading a lot improves both your reading and your writing skills. It doesn’t really matter what you’re reading, as long as a halfway competent editor has been through it beforehand. So, if we can get kids reading something? Then that’s great, because being literate is really, really important if you want to be successful in our society, no matter what industry you’re trying to enter into. It’s the difference between being taken seriously and being assumed to be an idiot. If a big stack of teen vampire novels is what it takes to get a teenager to become someone who can string sentences together coherently and possess basic reading comprehension, then that big stack of vampire novels is doing some good. The fact of the matter is, fiction is a much easier sell than non-fiction for most kids.
A particular problem in North America right now is that the literacy rate among boys is actually steadily plummeting, something that has been directly attributed to the fact that less boys are reading than in the past. A big part of that problem comes from the fact that reading fiction has become seen as something of a “feminine” activity, and there is a lot more YA stuff being released now by female authors, about female characters, or with female characters on the cover. One response to this has been to cry out for more “books for boys” to get them back into reading. A recent New York Times article actually tried to argue that it was the result of this sinister plot by women who have infiltrated the writing and publishing industry. Very few people are really taking a close look and thinking “hey, maybe this wouldn’t be a problem if we stopped training out boys to treat anything regarded as remotely feminine as though it spews hydrochloric acid upon contact with their skin”, sadly, but I guess that’s to be expected.
Additionally, coming from a library-industry perspective, I’ve quite literally been trained to regard all fiction to be equally valid in terms of trying to match people to the books they want. As an industry, we tried the gatekeeper approach for a very long time in order to try to make sure that patrons only read “good” books and so become ‘enriched’, but that just played into elitism and the stigmitisation of genre fiction. Or at least whatever genres are currently not sexy.
the twisted spinster
/ April 15, 2012The thing is I don’t think it’s working — women reading scads of trashy YA paranormal romance isn’t translating into people who can put together their own thoughts well or spell English properly. It might be that these books are too simplistic and easy to read, and they go down so smoothly nothing sticks, even sentence structure. This sort of light reading, while possibly being mostly harmless entertainment (if you don’t already believe that gurlz iz speshul flowers who deserve the Best Boyfriend the stupid ideas in this book will just be seen as a source of entertainment, not Truths of Life), don’t contain the sort of writing that improves your reading and writing skills. They’re generally written in the flat, ordinary way that Americans already speak and think. It’s just repeating, or reinforcing, their current level of education. I mean, unless you are really very undereducated and getting through a simple sentence is a chore, your reading skills will not be expanded by reading stuff written at or under your current education level.
Shorter above: Jane Austen stretched and expanded my understanding of the English language. J.K. Rowling didn’t.
Next Friday
/ April 16, 2012I don’t see why the call for basic literacy should be translated into let’s hook them all on trash. And since there are lots of kids, then we need more trash. What I see here is that the industry preys on the unfortunate.
Mae Ost (@mae_ost)
/ April 15, 2012“The shift is interesting–”problems of youth” novels are about introducing teens to adulthood, but YA novels of today are about infantilizing adult matters to a level of teenage concerns, hence immortal fairies/vampires/angels/etc going to high school and participating in high school drama-politics.”
Why adults read YA? I’ll post a longish quote which, I think, encapsulates many of the reasons. Or at least I have picked up on the similar vibe with many other self-confessed adult YA consumers:
“Growing up, and even to date, I’m nothing if not a realist. But the idea of going back to that time in my life, the time when the world was mine for the taking, when I felt I could literally become anything I wanted to be, brings a kind of nostalgia. Because while I’m not one of these people who’ll say “It was the best time of your life,” (it wasn’t, but it was interesting), I do miss that time of unhindered possibility and promise. Reading YA brings me back to that time in life, and it gives me a chance to root for characters who are facing those same open doors, and lament when those doors are, for whatever reason, denied to them.
I think it’s one reason why college-aged protagonists in books don’t work well for me personally (it’s not an accident that my two DNFs this year featured college-aged heroes/heroines). Because in college, that’s when those limitless doors starting slamming on me, based on the choices I made, and if I really had to go back and do something over again, I’d start with college.
So yes, that’s why I read YA. Because reading it is a welcome nostalgia. It’s one why I’m harsher with YA than other genres, because it’s tougher when you see the characters make stupid, dumb decisions. But getting emotionally involved is the POINT. If a YA can’t involve you on an emotional level, it’s not doing its job.”
http://calico-reaction.livejournal.com/298778.html#cutid1
the twisted spinster
/ April 15, 2012Wow, I never felt like that when I was young. I always felt hemmed in and limited. It wasn’t until I became an adult (or started to — it’s an ongoing process that will never end, I think) that I began to get a feeling of that “unhindered possibility and promise.” And I never felt like the world was “mine for the taking.” That sort of arrogance wasn’t encouraged when I was a kid, and anyone who raised their kids that way would have been considered insane.
acrackedmoon
/ April 15, 2012Hmm. In that case, it’s a bit like men way over teenage years reading Robert Jordan and any of the hundred other juvenile wish-fulfillment things, isn’t it? Sure, I understand the lure of nostalgia and escapism, but eh. I’d also argue that doors really open once you’re an adult. What you lose is the illusion that the world owes you something or that you are special (both components central to most of YA). If that’s the thing people chase and wish to get back, well uh.
Next Friday
/ April 15, 2012It looks like one of the responses to this article in NYTimes, even if it wasn’t specifically mentioned. I’ve seen a few other responses as well generally going on along how dare you criticize my toys lines.
It’s somewhat amusing, but not entirely unexpected, that they explain their interest in YA in terms of great expectations and nostalgia. The theme of lost illusions is one of the most common in literature, countless scenarios has been examined, countless solutions has been offered. By the time the doors start slamming, you can be well prepared. And later on you can have strategies that don’t involve escapism into the age of innocence when nostalgia hits you.
E F
/ April 16, 2012Well huzzah to everything you said here.
I’ve had enough of parents assuming that their kids reading Twilight now means they’ll read War and Peace in the future.
Mae Ost (@mae_ost)
/ April 16, 2012“Hmm. In that case, it’s a bit like men way over teenage years reading Robert Jordan and any of the hundred other juvenile wish-fulfillment things, isn’t it? Sure, I understand the lure of nostalgia and escapism, but eh.”
I think it is a kind of power trip, yes.
The question is why do so many adult female Anglophone readers have the need to experience empowerment in this way? (Which really is not an empowerment at all)
“I’d also argue that doors really open once you’re an adult. What you lose is the illusion that the world owes you something or that you are special (both components central to most of YA). If that’s the thing people chase and wish to get back, well uh.”
And there we are. My own world matrix solidified in my early childhood as “you can _make_ your life special, provided you do x,y,z”. Consequently, I was impatient to arrive into my adulthood to get stuck in (you had to be an adult to acquire the full range of tools to interact with life).
I still experience reality as something I contribute to and shape, rather than something that happens to me. My experience was conditioned by the fact that I am female, I come from a relatively privileged background, and I spent my early formative years in a country that committed to equality on paper, if not in practice – though due to the abovementioned privilege I was removed from this practice as a child.
I also found most of the YA titles I have sampled in the last year just too damn shallow to hold my interest. I might have liked some at 13, but they really aren’t suitable as a part of my regular reading diet.
Why am I brinning all of this up? I really think there is a link between the expanding adult female readership of the YA genre, and the societal expectations that were transmitted to these readers when they themselves were young girls. It is reaction. The manifestation of this reaction is telling us something about how they view their place in life, and assess their real options (i.e. how high is the barrier to starting over?)
Why so many adult female Anglophone readers in the prime of their lives feel so powerless these days?
ǝuuǝıɹpɐ (@adrienneleigh)
/ April 16, 2012Sorry, it won’t let me reply to specific comments when logged in via Twitter. :(
I didn’t read much ‘kid fiction’ or ‘teen fiction’ myself as a kid; I was reading adult-level books (mostly genre stuff, SFF, but with some nonfiction and other random stuff) by the time I was eight or nine years old.
HOWEVER, there is a thing I think you are missing (and it’s totally understandable, because, well, you’re a non-USian — you have no reason to notice the stats), and that is that there is a HUGE illiteracy problem in this country.
Here’s Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States) quoting a recentish study done:
‘The study, the most comprehensive study of literacy ever commissioned by the U.S. government, was released in April 2002 and reapplied in 2003 giving trend data. It involved lengthy interviews of over 90,700 adults statistically balanced for age, gender, ethnicity, education level, and location (urban, suburban, or rural) in 12 states across the U.S. and was designed to represent the U.S. population as a whole. This government study showed that 21% to 23% of adult Americans were not “able to locate information in text”, could not “make low-level inferences using printed materials”, and were unable to “integrate easily identifiable pieces of information.”‘
And as one might expect, this does have real-world consequences:
‘Further, this study showed that 41% to 44% of U.S. adults in the lowest level on the literacy scale (literacy rate of 35 or below) were living in poverty.’
Note, too, that immigrant populations and minority communities are, for many reasons, among the most likely to have high percentages of functional illiteracy. And that is definitely, absolutely, one of the things that makes those communities more likely to be poor.
So yeah, I’m one of those “at least it gets kids reading” folks, myself. I do get that a lot of kidlit and YA is crap — I try to steer people I know toward GOOD books for their kids (or for themselves, if they happen to be kids). But the US school system really does do its damnedest to beat the love of reading out of kids, and I think that’s a terrible fucking thing — I’d rather they learn to love reading even if they cut their teeth on incredible bullshit. Because while it’s no guarantee, it really is a lot easier to go from “stupid YA” to Nabokov than it is to go from “functionally illiterate” to Nabokov. And make no mistake, in this country, “functionally illiterate” really IS one of the very plausible alternatives we’re talking about.
ǝuuǝıɹpɐ (@adrienneleigh)
/ April 16, 2012…and I sympathize, I truly do, with the whole “books that have shitty ideas” issue. I hate that young women read Twilight, myself, and get the idea that stalkery men are awesome and that Twoo Wuv looks like that. I can’t even imagine what it’s like to be nonwhite, nonwestern, and have to put up with all of THAT subliminal bullshit too.
But those stats above make that — not irrelevant, but significantly less important — to me, when it comes to kids in the US (I would never, ever presume to comment on the importance of it for kids in your country, or other non-US populations). But given that there is almost a 50% chance that if you can’t read you will live in poverty, and that at LEAST 20% of the US adult population basically can’t read, i’m all for getting kids in the US to =want= to read by any fucking means necessary — even if it means we have to figure out how to cure them of bad ideas later. Hell of a lot easier to get therapy if you’re not living under a bridge. :(
(That is NOT meant to be flip, btw. These stats scare the hell out of me, and depress me to no end. I don’t KNOW how to solve all the interlocking problems, at all.)
Next Friday
/ April 16, 2012And the expectation here is that Stephenie Meyer is supposed to step in and automagically fix the screwups of local governments that can’t get their shit together and actually pay attention to their schools?
the twisted spinster
/ April 16, 2012Actually I read that Wikipedia page, and noted things like the illiteracy in Detroit is at 47% — Detroit is a city with dire problems, none of which will be solved by getting more people to read YA books about slender white females falling in love with vampires — and that areas with immigrant populations are the highest in illiteracy. Some of that “illiteracy” of course may simply be deficiency in English. In any case, again, I don’t think that the illiteracy of immigrants will be solved by getting them to read YA.
The target audience of most YA literature these days seems to be young white middle- to upper-class girls. Illiteracy is probably fairly low in that demographic. Don’t hang your hopes on today’s sort of YA literature to solve any of the illiteracy problems in this country.
Next Friday
/ April 16, 2012Basically, as soon as you critique the right of the upper and middle classes to remain intellectually lazy, you get two sorts of answers:
- But think of the poor & immigrants!
- You’re elitist!
That’s so transparent, it’s not even funny anymore.
katsedia
/ April 16, 2012Right, because it’s the immigrant kids who are wolfing down Twilight and other inanities. They cannot possibly have something more crucial to read.
the twisted spinster
/ April 17, 2012I don’t think the the middle and upper classes have a right to be intellectually lazy. I’m just saying that YA literature isn’t going to solve any literacy problems with people who won’t be reading that stuff in the first place. By the way, “intellectual laziness” is a somewhat different problem than being illiterate. Many people who can’t read are still bright, curious, and smart. They just don’t know how to read, for a variety of reasons. In upper middle class mostly white society people know how to read — they just don’t want to think.
Contemporary young adult series like this Facebook thing are intended to be consumed by young well-off white girls. Very few young, well-off white girls are illiterate. I’m not saying poor minority kids and immigrant kids wouldn’t read these books too, but they aren’t the target market. In any case, we shouldn’t be promoting these books as part of a “get kids to read!” program because they are garbage. It would be like a stop-hunger-now campaign promoting the feeding of Twinkies and other junk food to starving people, because “it tastes good, it will get them eating!”
saajanpatel
/ April 17, 2012I don’t know, having worked at one of the DC public schools abandoned by politicians down the road I think there is something to the idea of books like Harry Potter, Hunger Games, and so on as phenomenons. We’ve bought Harry Potter for some of the kids I worked with because the media attention made people want to check it out.
Are there better books? Always. And for some kids, who read anyway, we don’t need these media blitzes – my sister spent years working with an immigrant girl who had one of the best statements on Catcher and The Rye:
“He has so many opportunities to get a great education, why does he whine all the time?”
But there is something refreshing when kids you worry about graduating highschool are suddenly hungry for a book.
the twisted spinster
/ April 17, 2012I guess I need to qualify my “YA is garbage” with my opinion that Harry Potter and maybe Hunger Games (haven’t read that series) aren’t too bad, compared to, say, some of the teen highschool vampire nonsense. But there are so many better books out there. Maybe one reason so many kids aren’t reading is they just don’t know that there is more to books than stories of finding your true love in high school.
saajanpatel
/ April 17, 2012Your criticisms definitely have merit, and the points that you raise and the ones in Moon’s piece are legitimate. I think your last line is also poignant, it would be just as bad to dismiss populations as “not wanting to read” when the truth is also “not wanting to read about people they can’t identify with” as in the Catcher in the Rye example.
(Aside: Reminds me of a clinical research group discussing obesity in the inner city community relating to “nutritional ignorance” and “bad habits” until someone finally got up and told a story about how the kids in her class, when asked what they’d wished for if they had a genie, almost unanimously said they’d want to live in, work for, or run a grocery store so their family would have better food.)
There has been some, last I checked sadly minimal, work done on developing reading-level search engines so children and adults could get material off the net that was interesting to them and inline with their reading level.
the twisted spinster
/ April 17, 2012I haven’t read Catcher in the Rye but I gather the protagonist is a rich, upper-middle-class white kid with all sorts of advantages, and I’ve never found such characters sympathetic or interesting unless a whole lot of bad things that weren’t their fault happened to them. It’s just like the “poor little rich girl” who is so sad about Mummy and Daddy going off to Gdansk instead of being at her beck and call so she dates abusive men and gets hooked on heroin. A book about such better be really well-written and even then I’m apt to put it back on the shelf unread.
But that’s just me. I’ve disparaged the idea of “identifying with” characters, because when white people use it these days they usually mean they don’t want to read about people of color or anything else that doesn’t take them out of their safe, cozy whitebread world. This has resulted in a glut of books about white people and their problems, and any objections to that gets the rejoinder that we’re in a “post-racial” society so it shouldn’t matter and look there’s a black kid reading Harry Potter so it’s okay. But you know, maybe he’s reading it so he can get to the bits with Dean, just to feel a little like he belongs in the world of Harry Potter as he is, and not have to imagine himself as a white kid instead.
pinstripeowl
/ April 18, 2012That last sentence really speaks to me. I was/am a voracious reader and I think one of the reasons I used to look at the YA section most of the time in the bookshop/library when I was that age (before it was all ‘paranormal romance’ or whatever, which wouldn’t have interested me) was because I was a great fan of fantasy/sci-fi and if you went looking for those in the adult section, you’d get a minimal shelf often filled with writers who had a million books to a series, which seemed rather forbidding to me, particularly as I was a little put off by real, space-filled sci-fi.
I think having gateway authors is a good way of battling it: a kind of, “you like this, so what about this?” no matter of what age it’s actually marketed to. But then, I’ve always been awful at figuring out what “age” things should be read.
Next Friday
/ April 18, 2012It’s pretty funny when Catcher in the Rye is given to immigrant kids. Every day is Battle Royale for you and here it comes, meet Holden Caulfield.
Emil Söderman
/ April 17, 2012^^ That’s… Dubious, from what I’ve seen. It might be true in some cases, but most of the “no reading at all” people I’ve encountered tend to have more of a “damaged by classics” feel. (Or rather, damaged by the few classics that are mandatory reading in school)
I do wonder if there’s a difference in swedish and english there though: It’s my impression that english written language is much more similar to what it was then say… Swedish. Jane Austen is much closer to contemporary english than her swedish counterparts.
I think there’s a place for that kind of reading too, btw. If only because certain books you’re just sort of expected to know about in a vague sort of way, but very few people are sitting down and telling kids to read vampire romances. (that is, if you discount the publishers of said books, ofc.)
Next Friday
/ April 17, 2012I’ve seen a lot of people ‘damaged by classics’ as well. Systematic approach calls for chronological arrangement of the material. Obviously! So we end up with 12 year olds hit with the xviii century masterpieces, when most kids just don’t know enough context to process them. You’d be lucky if your parents thought it through.
saajanpatel
/ April 17, 2012@Twisted Spinster: Honestly, what I’m hungry for at the moment is some homonormative fiction.
LGBT girls and guys just chilling in some fantasy universe, hanging out with their breeder friends and maybe going on some quest or something. Maybe throw a party when their friend transitions on her or his 18th birthday.
acrackedmoon
/ April 17, 2012Laurie Marks’ books are very homonormative. Thus far out of all the main characters I’ve found only one who’s straight. The rest are gay, gay everywhere, gay all the time. The few times women’s bodies are sexualized it’s very much from a female gaze. It’s wonderful.
the twisted spinster
/ April 17, 2012I agree. I’m sick of conventional hetero pairings. Heck, in this climate even a male-female duo that just remained friends at the end would be a shattering of convention. But yeah, well-written gay characters would be a bonus. That’s why I laugh when clueless people think reading fantasy is “weird” and “out there.” Fantasy is mostly a conservative, conventional genre.
Must check out some Laurie Marks.
acrackedmoon
/ April 17, 2012Oh that’s the other thing. Not only are many of the men gay anyway, even the straight ones don’t try to hit on the women inappropriately. There’s very little sexual tension, no silly romantic stuff. Men and women can be completely platonic friends!
the twisted spinster
/ April 17, 2012“Men and women can be completely platonic friends!”
B-but Hollywood told me that wasn’t possible! Hollywood wouldn’t lie to me, would they? Never mind that your sentence basically describes my current lifestyle, and I am more than fine and happy with my lifestyle. My lifestyle rocks.
Anyway, I looked up Laurie Marks on Amazon. Someone is selling a new copy (dead tree of course) for US$159.99. Wat. On the other hand, there are some used copies supposedly in good condition for around five bucks but I cannot allow myself to acquire any more paper books. That’s why I bought a Kindle. Her Water Logic is available for the Kindle but it’s the third in the series and the other books don’t seem to be available electronically. Why do you do that publishers why. Oh well, I put it on my wish list anyway.
saajanpatel
/ April 17, 2012“Her Water Logic is available for the Kindle but it’s the third in the series and the other books don’t seem to be available electronically. Why do you do that publishers why. Oh well, I put it on my wish list anyway.”
Same, space is a problem for me with books at this point but I might grab the used copies of the first two.
Thanks for the recom!
Matt Borgard
/ April 18, 2012I like how you put Chaucer in your list of pre-approved intellectual reading when much of his work is titillating and trashy with pretty superficial themes. Doesn’t mean I don’t love him. It just means that today’s “sea of fecal matter” is tomorrow’s literary classic.
The fact is that “better books” is always a judgement call, and I could make a good case for several beloved literary classics are actually fairly worthless. Go ahead and critique individual works, but trashing entire literary genres because you think they’re inferior is just hipster bullshit and does no one any good.
acrackedmoon
/ April 18, 2012Hahahaha.
Oh how do I put it. Chaucer et al were fairly remarkable in their times, for one reason or another (and their works tended to be a bit more than “trashy”)–Chaucer influenced English itself, Shakespeare helped shape Modern English, Dickens was an anti-Semitic hack but also an activist whose activism infused his fiction. And, I’m sorry my bro, today’s shitty fiction ain’t doing nothing like that. They have no power to affect anything but the commercial–which is pretty powerful, but I don’t see Harry Potter or Dan Brown changing the way people think or the way politics or language operates.
are you for real dude
EDIT: Wait what, the bit you objected to is the bit about big-name fantasy staples? You want to defend GRRM and the rest as TOMORROW’S CLASSICS?
are you fifteen
EDIT EDIT: Fuck me Speaker for the Dead is one of your very favorite books. Hooo boy your facebook profile is classic neckbeard. If only you weren’t real. “I HATE TWILIGHT” while defending… GRRM? Really? Giggling forever. Dan Savage is one of your inspirational influences? Pbbbttthaha.
apocryphon
/ June 11, 2012What’s wrong with Speaker for the Dead? It was better sci-fi than Card’s other works.
the twisted spinster
/ April 18, 2012“I like how you put Chaucer in your list of pre-approved intellectual reading when much of his work is titillating and trashy with pretty superficial themes.”
I can’t even. I’ll bet, though, you think you’re really brave and daring for writing that, GRRM fanboi.
Emil Söderman
/ April 18, 2012^ I’ve just gone through yet another course on literary history, so it’s a bit fresh in my mind but…. Yes and no.
Shakespeare (and to some degree Chaucer) shaped language becuase of the context they were operating in. Shakespeare was writing in the period were europeans were getting standardized written languages (which didn’t *really* happen until the printing press and the new mass-editions of the Bible) the fact that the popular author at the time would make an impact there is well… Pretty much expected.
Remember how relatively illiterate medieval society was: Reading was limited and reading prose or poetry even moreso.
acrackedmoon
/ April 18, 2012Sure! But we could speculate for all eternity what thing might do what and attribute it all to blind chance, and that’s about as productive as nothing–what is measurable is what has been done and what has happened. And, setting aside directly influencing the language, do you see very many lowest-common-denominator writers shaping anything in any appreciable way whatsoever? George RR Martin, whom the dude upthread is keen to defend? Unless one counts “shaping” grimdark fantasy, I suppose.
acrackedmoon
/ April 18, 2012So after we’ve gone round and round, I still get the impression that “kids are reading!” is aimed mainly at precisely the same demographic that gets portrayed in the vast majority of YA fiction (and at whom YA, similarly, is aimed at)–middle-class, white, fairly privileged. What is their problem? Does this demographic suffer from any appreciable functional literacy, and if so… why the fuck?
Emil Söderman
/ April 18, 2012^ What’s your definition of “middle-class”? Because I’m mainly talking about working-class children. (as well as the occasional middle-class child in an unusually bad environment)
^^ Oh, I don’t think any of the current crop of writers are going to become classics unless there’s some kind of weird reaction and rediscovery of these “lost gems” at some point in the future. Rowling might get a mention, Jordan might be, depending on how the thing pans out. (mainly for being a gateway in the publishing sense, rather than his quality)
Tolkien is mentioned in literary textbooks nowadays, but OTOH I think the entire concept of “classic” is becoming less and less relevant as production of literature explodes.
acrackedmoon
/ April 18, 2012Middle-class is… whatever is defined in the US as middle-class, I suppose, since the discussion’s been pretty Americanocentric so far. Or how it’s defined in your country. I do understand that it’s not just a middle-class white kids thing, but that seems to be the context to which I’ve seen the attitude directed.
Ultimately though, I don’t get the functional illiteracy thing, as it’s much less of a problem here: people, generally, read (not novels, but who gives a shit–only absolute tools whine that magazines/newspapers don’t count, see also aforementioned fuckwad westerners). People might have trouble with the more formal registers of the language–I do–but that’s to be expected. Also, we actually have to learn a second language! Which is something not mandatory for Anglophones, which further baffles me and prompts me to ask “what the fuck is your problem.” It’s the dissonance, partly. Here we are, in all our Thirdworldian glory, and yet the US manages to suck donkey shit at something that’s not really a blip for us on the social problems radar?
Tim Vermeulen (@CormansInferno)
/ April 18, 2012Whoops, that last hyperlink didn’t work. Take two.
Tim Vermeulen (@CormansInferno)
/ April 18, 2012Damn, replied to the wrong thread. And the hyperlink still doesn’t work. Curse you, Twitter!
acrackedmoon
/ April 18, 2012I’ll edit it into working. :p Thanks for the links.
Tim Vermeulen (@CormansInferno)
/ April 18, 2012“It’s the dissonance, partly. Here we are, in all our Thirdworldian glory, and yet the US manages to suck donkey shit at something that’s not really a blip for us on the social problems radar?”
You vastly underestimate the power of American greed. We defund public schools like crazy to justify paying out huge corporate tax breaks and then the schools turn to corporations for funding, so kid’s textbooks are and the school walls are plastered with advertising (in many cases where schools have sold out, there is even sometimes a day-long infomercial “lesson” given to the students to teach them about the wonders of the product at hand). Only those who can afford high-end private schools get a decent education in the US, while those at an economic disadvantage (inner-city ethnic minorities, anyone not in a six-figure tax bracket) are stuck learning from someone trying to teach with outdated materials, who earns a salary barely higher than the average McDonald’s employee. Not mention that the sports teams are universally valued over any form of the arts, so the already limited funding usually goes to the Athletic departments instead or English or Music or Art.
acrackedmoon
/ April 18, 2012…what? That sounds unreal. No way. You’re pulling my leg, right?
Inverarity Pynchon
/ April 18, 2012Well, as has been pointed out already, a lot of the functional illiteracy is clustered in the non-white non-middle class population. And studies have shown that an early interest in reading tends to boost not just literacy but academic performance across the board. So it would be nice if what the kids were reading was something more intellectually nutritious, but I too am in the “If Harry Potter gets more kids to read, then it’s a good thing” camp. Some percentage of them will eventually move on to more relevant and important works, some percentage that’s at an age where, without popular phenomena like Harry Potter, our school system has a habit of killing any interest in reading.
I’m also in favor of encouraging the middle-class white kids to read, though, because it’s been my experience that a disinterest in reading (books) correlates strongly to a lack of intellectual curiosity in general, which correlates strongly to being an ignorant tool whose political views are informed by Fox News. This may not be the same elsewhere; it is likely a function of the U.S.’s strong and growing anti-intellectual strain.
Getting kids to read more is not a cure-all for anything, but it certainly can’t hurt. And if you want more diversity in the books they read, you need more kids reading in the first place. The smaller the reading population, the smaller the market for anything out of the mainstream.
acrackedmoon
/ April 18, 2012Fox News personalities go on to write bestsellers, though. Where do you develop the critical faculties? Not by reading Harry Potter (which by itself has enough broken moral philosophies that encourage both the single story problem and a certain kind of propaganda), certainly. It’s just as easy to consume fiction mindlessly as it is to consume anything else mindlessly, because the majority of anything is designed to appeal to uncritical consumption rather than intellectual curiosity. True, if you start going you’ll be more likely to develop the critical faculties than not… but you probably develop about as much intellectual curiosity consuming videogames or Hollywood blockbusters as when you consume bestsellers. And then, of course, most of those bestsellers (like any other mass-market thing) are stuffed from cover to cover with harmful ideas.
Dunno, maybe it’s a vicious cycle, one I don’t think is necessarily broken by promoting popular-and-harmful shit as “at least it gets kids to read.”
Tim Vermeulen (@CormansInferno)
/ April 18, 2012“…what? That sounds unreal. No way. You’re pulling my leg, right?”
I really wish that wasn’t the case, but yes. The most glaring example I can think of is more than a decade ago, when school made headlines after a student was actually suspended for wearing a Coke t-shirt on “Pepsi appreciation day” (Pepsi had given a massive grant to the school, so each of the days classes in the entire school had to have some Pepsi-approved promotional “lesson”).
acrackedmoon
/ April 18, 2012That continues to sound unreal. Not that I’m disputing you, but how common is it–advertisements in textbooks/school walls and infomercials? I honest to goodness can’t imagine anything like this.
Tim Vermeulen (@CormansInferno)
/ April 18, 2012“That continues to sound unreal. Not that I’m disputing you, but how common is it–advertisements in textbooks/school walls and infomercials? I honest to goodness can’t imagine anything like this.”
The advertising is everywhere. Most places aren’t as extreme on the promotional end as the Pepsi incident, but probably still have some portion of the lesson plan which was “donated” by a corporation underwriting the school. There is a “news” program called Channel 01 which is basically a 15-minute long infomercial that airs in many schools (including my own when I was still in high school), and is MANDATORY VIEWING for students. It is mandatory viewing because if the schools don’t agree to make sure the students sit though it, they don’t get funding from the corporate coalition that puts it together. The ads in textbooks come mainly in the form of “dust covers” the schools hands out for free which are slathered with ads from corporate sponsors. Poster-sized ads plastered all over school walls are pretty much commonplace, as are the giant ads ringing every gymnasium or stadium wall (not content with those anymore, most companies are now starting to put their advertising RIGHT ON THE FIELD). In addition to these, many schools no longer have the funding for a school lunch program, so meals are provided by Taco Bell or Pizza Hut or whatever fast food chain takes up shop in the cafeteria.
Inverarity Pynchon
/ April 18, 2012The rest of what Tim Vermeulen says is true, though a little bit exaggerated (few school districts have actually gone as far as he describes, though it’s becoming more common the more strapped they are for money), but I have never heard of a school being given a day-long “infomercial” lesson, and would like a citation.
saajanpatel
/ April 18, 2012I was thinking about functional literary last night, and I guess literacy is valuable in a measurable fashion if it allows for class mobility. So, to an extent, this YA marketing machine can promote at least some level of literary that might not otherwise be present.
On the other hand, looking at complicity in privilege via class, and how it seems to me globalization and corporations contribute to more rigid stratas of income levels, I do think there’s the problem of getting kids to read but only so well and thus leading to a stunted intellectual ability but a nice market hooked on the same old, same old.
Tim Vermeulen (@CormansInferno)
/ April 18, 2012“but I have never heard of a school being given a day-long ‘infomercial’ lesson, and would like a citation.”
Sure. Naomi Klein’s No Logo describes the Pepsi Appreciation Day incident, as well as the augmented “lesson plans” Pepsi provided for the day.
the twisted spinster
/ April 19, 2012Not all YA is thin-white-girl-in-love-with-vampire crap: while link hopping I came across this article by Native-American author Sherman Alexie on YA books with violent and/or troubling themes. As opposed to the sub-Buffy garbage aimed at well-off emo white girls, he’s talking about the sort of books like those I remember from my own teenage years. So maybe there’s hope.
mollyspring
/ June 26, 2012Yes, exactly. Sherman Alexie is a prolific, popular YA author whose books are fantastic. To discount YA as a category and say it’s unnecessarily because some of it is crap is a ridiculous argument. Instead of talking about what’s terrible, it’s so much more productive to highlight what’s good.
Left Eye Looking
/ April 20, 2012I agree with most of what you’ve said and you have made some valid points.
I have to co-sign with some of the comments above, a lot of the pressure to read has been directed at people like me, people of color in the uS. When I was growing up in the 80′s, I saw the ads on tv, at school, the library, billboards, stapled to ad boards at restaurants about reading.
I agree that reading genre fiction is very important in the US for groups, like my own, which are socially marginalized.
I live in a White world, not a POC world, so in order to pass White exams and subscribe to understand Whiteness which is the dominate culture in the US, children of color must read and know about White literature like the Catcher in the Rye and ridiculous dribble like Gone with the Wind. Blacks are only 12% of the US population and in order to get ahead all POC have to know how to play the game. Latinos are the largest minority but are still behind WASPS, so they need to learn all about White literature to passed standardized exams too and talk to White bosses, get accepted to White universities. Besides, literacy is very important in any country, but especially when you’re not White, are poor, and every social institution is stacked against you from birth due to historical circumstances which no one recognizes or may even know about since, Americans have conveniently forgotten the ugly side of US history.
Now, I do wish that children of all colors and ethnicities in the US would read more authors of color like Langston Hughes, Toni Morrison, and Nikki Giovanni and sci-fi genre authors like Octavia Butler. Those authors are not well known in the White world. Very few White-Americans can tell me who Zura Neale Hurston is and even the nerd culture which has gone mainstream about sci-fi & fantasy wouldn’t be able to tell me who Octavia Butler is.
However, when I was a kid I didn’t read YA books anyway and neither did my friends and classmates in middle school or high school. I read Stephen King, Anne RIce, Edgar Allen Poe, Octavia Butler, Ursula K. Le Guin, Sandra Cisneros and numerous Spanish language authors since I grew up in the barrio (I’m Black & Asian but I grew up exclusively around Mexicans and Salvadorians in the barrio in California). Most of my classmates were reading ghost stories by famous Spanish authors or reading adult authors, not YA.
I think this YA surge is a fetish in the US and is a recent phenomenon of the 2000′s. It wasn’t this popular in the 90′s or the 80′s. The YA books that did exist in the 80′s and 90′s had serious subject matter and could be downright depressing (teen pregnancy, drug abuse, divorce, poverty, etc).
It’s like the US has de-evolved or degenerated in the 2000′s, books have become worse instead of improving.
acrackedmoon
/ April 20, 2012That’s a good point (and for that matter the western canon–populated almost entirely by dead white people–commands undeserved prestige globally; when people say “English literature” it is really “dead white people literature”).
If you told a US citizen from ten years ago today they’d be redefining human life as beginning before conception they probably wouldn’t have believed you! Among other things.
Thank you very much for your comment, I completely forgot to think about the points you’ve made. Shame on me, honestly. Apologies.
saajanpatel
/ April 20, 2012Excellent comment!
I was wondering, if you get a chance if you expand on the authors mentioned here (especially curious about the ghost story part):
numerous Spanish language authors since I grew up in the barrio (I’m Black & Asian but I grew up exclusively around Mexicans and Salvadorians in the barrio in California). Most of my classmates were reading ghost stories by famous Spanish authors or reading adult authors, not YA.
thanks!
Sci
Next Friday
/ April 20, 2012I’m curious too.
I assumed magical realism authors like Borges, Bioy Casares, Garcia Marquez, Arreola, Cortazar, etc. I could be wrong though.
Left Eye Looking
/ April 21, 2012@Saajanpatel & Next Friday
Here are some of the Latino authors that I remember my classmates reading when I was in middle school and high school in the 80′s and 90′s. Unfortunately due to sexism at the time, I didn’t know of many Spanish language female authors, so these authors are male.
Horacio Quiroga from Uraguay can be compared to Edgar Allen Poe, most of his stuff is good. La sombra del viento, is a YA magic-realism book by Carlos Ruiz Zafón who also wrote El Príncipe de la Niebla/The prince of mist…when I was a teenager my classmates were reading El Principe/Prince of Mist in the early 90′s. It’s a horror story. Los Fantasmas or Ghosts in English by Cesar Aira is a typical ghost novel came out in the 90′s and I remember hearing about it then. I believe there are English copies all these books now, since the mid-2000s.
Off of the topic of horror and ghost stories: Mexican-American author Alex Sanchez wrote a trilogy of YA books about Americans coming-of-age except their heterosexuality is questioned and one of them is wrestling with the fact that he is gay. They’re not SF/F at all, and only one of the main characters is POC, the other two are White. Still I give Alex Sanchez points for writing a book about a gay male teenager.
I hope this helps!
Left Eye Looking
/ April 21, 2012I like Sandra Cisneros as much as the next person, but I was tired of her being lauded as the end-all and be-all for Spanish language authors by my high school teachers. I graduated in 1996 if that’s any clue of my decade.
I still read YA but most of it is not English or American, that doesn’t make it better. It does make it non-Eurocentric.
Alex Sanchez, I just discovered him a few years ago. He wasn’t out when I was in high school or middle school. He tend to only write homonormative stuff or themes about bisexuality among teenagers. I wish he wrote about more Latinos since he is Latino, but it’s a step in the right direction.
Left Eye Looking
/ April 21, 2012Oh I wanted to correct something I typed earlier, it’s late here and I’m tired so I’ve been misspelling words and the like. Earlier I said that author Alex Sanchez tends to only write about homonormative and bisexuality among teenagers (which is a good thing) then I followed up by stating that I wishe he wrote about more Latinos, since he is Latino. I hope no one was offended, I wasn’t trying to suggest that there aren’t any LGBT Latinos or that he only write about straight Latinos or something like that. I just re-read what I wrote and someone could take it the wrong way. Oops!
Next Friday
/ April 21, 2012Many thanks for the reply and the recs! I vaguely remember reading Quiroga’s stories when I was a kid. But overall my set of Latin American authors is a bit dated, so I’m trying to rectify it now. I’m also pulling a lot of new names from Larry’s blog.
Non-heteronormative stories are always welcome as well. When I was growing up, homosexuality “didn’t exist”, and when it did, it was punished with jail time. I wish things were different…
saajanpatel
/ April 23, 2012Thanks, saved your recs!
the twisted spinster
/ April 20, 2012They’re making kids read Gone With The Wind in California? No wonder the place is in a mess. I’m surprised they’d make kids read something so openly racist and gushing about the South.
I agree with you that things have deteriorated here, but I’d say the rot really got going in the mid-80s. (I graduated high school in 1980.) There was a general turning away from the interesting and broadening cultural trends of the Seventies. I’m not sure why this happened, but I have thoughts.
Left Eye Looking
/ April 21, 2012@the twisted spinster
unfortunately when i was in high school they had our English Lit class read, Gone with the Wind and watch the whole damn film. Yes, California is going to hell. I giggled through the film, because I thought it was supposed to be a comedy so did the rest of my class. I was in a public school classroom of 37 students, all POC who were predominately Latino and I was the only Blasian, and we truly thought Gone with the Wind was supposed to be this comedy and not a serious romance movie. I’m sure a Southerner would have been offended by the laughter in that classroom.
Ironically, a few years later when The Titanic came out, I giggled through that also. By then I was in college and in a classroom full Asians with a few Black students while everyone else was White (our professor told us we could get extra credit if we showed up outside of class hours to watch it) and most of the POC snickered through the film.
I think that the laughter in the case of Gone with the Wind and The Titanic, shows that POC students “get it” they know that they have to learn this shit because they live in a white, heteronormative, christians world which doesn’t have room for POC, LGBT, muslims, buddhists, jews, bahai’s, sikhs, deaf, blind, “others” this is why there was so much laughter in my high school and college Lit classes.
Our young, naive, teachers & professors would come in proclaiming the newest novel on the shelf and recommend that the class read it for extra credit or some other crap, and we would read it and mock it.
Not much as changed except that the shitty books from the 90′s and 80′s are now top quality reading material in comparison to shit like the Twilight novels, The Southern Vampire Mysteries and what other “snatch” is being hailed as the next tour-de-force.
Damn, when is Sherman Alexie going to get his due? His YA stuff is awesome!!!! But I guess America doesn’t want to read about Native-Americans, unless they’re savage werewolves saving dumb ass Bela Swan.
the twisted spinster
/ April 22, 2012They made you watch the movie? WHY??? And Titanic?!?! Dear gods, why??? I would have burned down the school if they made me watch Titanic.
Hanna S. (@ancalyme)
/ May 21, 2012I disagree with the ‘YA has no place, everyone should graduate from children’s literature to ‘real’ literature’ sentiment all over the place here.
The first novel I’ve ever finished was Harry Potter when I was 10. Before that my mother kept buying me classic pieces of children’s literature she approved of herself – Lassie, Bambi, Jules Verne and so on. I didn’t have anything against reading in itself – I liked the Grimm Brothers and I loved reading encyclopedias and non-fiction, which my mother didn’t consider actually ‘reading’. I tried reading each of those books she bought, and I strongly disliked them – there was nothing in them I could relate to, the settings were all places I couldn’t even imagine (being both foreign and historical) and the character names sounded like gibberish. The locally written novels were equally bad as they only ever featured children living in the a rustic setting.
Then came Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings (which honestly spoiled the fantasy genre for me), the adult and occasional YA books my uncle bought me for Easter, Christmas and my birthdays, Anne Rice and so on. I wish the list had included Orson Scott Card as they teach rationality, which is a very valuable lesson other novels included.
So my opinion is that genre that doesn’t have any place anymore outside of nostalgia is, instead of YA fiction, children’s literature. Not now in the age where children WILL expect something much more exciting, something they can identify with. There was a time before the information age when 20000 Leagues Under the Sea could make children dream of great adventures, where the Romanian novel Madalina described the actual whimsical issues children faced in their day-to-day life, when they could sympathize with falling in love with the freedom of country life over the oppressive city life like in Heidi… but that time has long since passed. When you need a certain level of education to understand children’s literature, then it stops being something children would enjoy.
My background is semi-privileged – I grew up in the 90s, in post-communist Romania in a single-parent household with another sibling.
I wrote this in a hurry, I apologize for any typos (I have a tendency to forget to write some words when I’m thinking too far ahead of what I want to write).
acrackedmoon
/ May 22, 2012But Tolkien is neck-deep in nostalgia and so is Harry Potter…? And I’m not sure how any of Card’s books teaches rationality, really.
the twisted spinster
/ May 22, 2012I really don’t get this idea that people have to “identify” with the characters and situations in the fiction they read, watch, etc. I wasn’t taught that way — when I was a child in the 60s and 70s the whole idea was to read about all sorts of different things so you would learn to empathize with people and events that were not like what you were used to encountering every day. But then you cite books like the Harry Potter ones and Lord of the Rings and those aren’t exactly about life in 1990s Romania, so maybe I am misunderstanding your meaning.
On a side note, one thing that seems to be the main drive behind popular YA novels today is the social aspect of connecting with other readers. My reading style comes from another tradition, one where you read to improve your mind and/or escape from everyday mundane life and other people in the meat world. I didn’t care about what other people read or thought about what I read. My parents, for example, read spy thrillers and historical novels, and I didn’t like them much. They didn’t understand why I read science fiction and fantasy. My father wanted me to read more historical stuff (he was a history teacher), but my parents were mostly glad I was a bookworm like them.
This was in the 1970s USA. There were book clubs and such that I vaguely knew about, but there was nothing like the internet back then; the only way to meet people with similar tastes in anything was to go out in the meat world and find them, and I wasn’t about to do that as an extremely anti-social child. But things are different now. If you ask me most of the service popular YA novels provide is not so much getting kids to read as it is getting them to socialize. I’m not sure if this is a good or bad thing.
acrackedmoon
/ May 22, 2012Likewise! It’s a puerile idea, if anything, a product of pop culture consumers reviewing pop culture for other such consumers, locked in a particular kind of thinking that reduces everything to “things I like” and “things I don’t like” with no ability to make distinction between, say, “good/bad writing” or “childish/mature ideas.”
saajanpatel
/ May 22, 2012Creating the Innocent Killer: Essay on why Ender’s Game teaches terrible morals ->
http://www4.ncsu.edu/~tenshi/Killer_000.htm
acrackedmoon
/ May 22, 2012Oho. That’s a fine and smart essay, thanks for the link.
saajanpatel
/ May 22, 2012Yeah, I have to admit when I read Ender’s Game (OSC’s only good book) I was enthralled. Then I read this essay and sort of realized why and how creepy the book is.
the twisted spinster
/ May 23, 2012I picked up the book and read through it some years ago. I’ll do that some times with books I’m not sure about; if I decide I like what I am skimming I’ll go back and start over and read it properly. Not this book. There was something about it I found repellent. I wasn’t exactly sure why back then, but thinking about it I realized that I was reacting to the fairly obvious manipulation of the author. I mean, all authors to a certain extent try to manipulate their readers, but Card is not a subtle writer. I’ll go along with being manipulated, but not when that manipulation is the equivalent of someone bashing me in the face over and over with a wooden mallet.
Inverarity Pynchon
/ May 22, 2012I wouldn’t recommend forcing Lassie and Jules Verne and other books over a century old on a 10-year-old either, but you realize there have been a lot more children’s books written since then, right? And not just Harry Potter.
mollyspring
/ June 26, 2012YA is a category on the basis of marketing. Bildingsroman, or a fancy word for YA, is a coming of age story that features a teenager protagonist. And those have been around forever.
Teens need YA (or stories about characters in this age bracket) so they can read about similar experiences to their own.
I’m well aware that there is a lot of low quality books shelved in the YA section of my library. There are also fantastic titles that grapple with moral issues. Having professionals who can guide teens is critical to getting the right books in kids hands, because the forces of marketing are powerful.
As a teenager, I was unaware of YA. I read classics and nonfiction. But now I read across a variety of genres, including YA, literary fiction, fantasy, mystery, etc, etc, etc. To judge a book based on its classification without even reading it is a bit presumptive.
I can sympathize with your irritation that these arguments in favor of YA are being made from a western standpoint, and yes, they don’t take into account struggles of non-white readers learning English as a second language.
The world needs more love, not more hate. Instead of bashing everything on you find distasteful on your blog, it might be more productive to promote things you think are worthy and good, rather than spewing so much vitriol.
acrackedmoon
/ June 26, 2012I put that in google translate from “English” to “human being” and all it gave me is “WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.” Is that about it? Sorry dissecting texts for shittiness, misogyny, racism and the like bothers you so much. Now tell me why I should give a shit that you’re bothered.
mollyspring
/ June 26, 2012It’s clear you’re not someone who is interested in rational discussion. No wonder your blog is called “requires only that you hate”.
the twisted spinster
/ June 26, 2012“Teens need YA (or stories about characters in this age bracket) so they can read about similar experiences to their own.”
Uh, no. Teens need more than anything to read about characters that are different from themselves in every way, so they can learn that there are other types of experience from their own. Teens in the Western world most of all need this, because if there is one culture that encourages its members to stick their heads up their own asses, it’s ours. The whole problem is teenagers having their wants and needs catered to, their self-image coddled and protected, the whole apparatus of building their immature feelings and experiences up as The Most Important And Speshulest Life Ever. YA, especially the bulk of what is being published now, does nothing but present a universe that is built around the whims of 13-20-year-olds, that encourages teenagers to think that their life as it is at their age is the best time they’ll ever have, and so on. And all this does is encourage people to accept the status quo. Having your emo goth heroine have to “choose” between a domineering vampire boyfriend and an “alpha male” werewolf boyfriend is not any sort of solution to anything, it builds no character, it does nothing to teach readers about people “different” from themselves because for one thing there are no fucking things such as vampires or werewolves.
But there are domineering males who think of themselves as “alpha” and presenting young women with the idea that this sort of male is the ideal is quite the danger. Only it’s not an “exciting” danger, but one that can leave women scarred for life if not dead when the real-life “alpha male” turns out to be an abusive brute.
“The world needs more love, not more hate.”
The world needs less mealy-mouthed papering-over of the bad things out there, less Cult of Niceness efforts to control discourse. All women being all sweet and gooey and lovey-dovey in the face of atrocity has done is make the ones perpetrating the atrocities feel safe and secure that they’ll be able to proceed without criticism. You’re just doing your part to make the world safer for assholes.
acrackedmoon
/ June 26, 2012That and most YA relationships seem to be written precisely to aid pick-up artists (and evo-psych believers).
mollyspring
/ June 26, 2012yes, calling people assholes…really changing the world there. great job!
acrackedmoon
/ June 26, 2012Yes, and demanding people be nice changes the world how precisely? Inquiring minds.
the twisted spinster
/ June 26, 2012Yyyesss, I do think that men who are domineering, abusive, “alpha male” brutes are assholes. I’m not sure why I should be ashamed of that. I also think that calling out men who are like this, women who don’t see anything wrong with them, and literature that promotes that sort of thing, will change the world if enough people do it. People are supposed to try and better themselves (that means “be better people, not “make more money” which is what too many of my fellow Westerners seem to think that means), not allow themselves to succumb to supposed “instincts” which are really just the internalized ideals of a dysfunctional society.
Next Friday
/ June 26, 2012Are you the one changing the world by supporting offensive shit?
saajanpatel
/ June 26, 2012Having your emo goth heroine have to “choose” between a domineering vampire boyfriend and an “alpha male” werewolf boyfriend is not any sort of solution to anything, it builds no character, it does nothing to teach readers about people “different” from themselves because for one thing there are no fucking things such as vampires or werewolves.
But there are domineering males who think of themselves as “alpha” and presenting young women with the idea that this sort of male is the ideal is quite the danger. Only it’s not an “exciting” danger, but one that can leave women scarred for life if not dead when the real-life “alpha male” turns out to be an abusive brute.
Hmmm, good point.
Baron Ridi
/ March 2, 2013I’m a little late to this, but I would add:
5) Reading is a skill. You have to practice it. Being able to blast through a text really fast, grasp the details, and repeat back what I had read in paraphrased form was a vital skill when I was in college. It still is. The kids I grew up with did not read, much. They certainly did not read books. They also failed out of college. College is not the only path to success, but it’s a pretty broad one, and one I’d like to preserve as a future option for a kid.
The number of books a college student has read for pleasure when they enter college is highly predictive of success in almost any major. Tens of thousands? If you can pay the bills and put up with the nonsense you’ll get a master’s degree, no trouble. A few hundred? Be prepared to work hard. Less than a hundred? You are very long odds, my friend. Very long odds.
I appreciate very much your comments in other posts on the prevalence of rape as a ‘character building’ shortcut in crappy fantasy books. Thank you for that, I hope authors being terrified of appearing here is doing some good.