The US (and much of the west) in general likes to paint the rest of the world as conservative, totalitarian, or lacking in human rights. Americans love nothing better than to believe that the rest of the world can’t go to sleep but toss and turn in desperate jealousy of American freedom, democracy, and bravery.
They hate it when someone tries to tell them we don’t give a shit about American freedom. They hate it super-extra bad when you point out that citizens of your country, which may be non-western or categorized as “third-world”, enjoy greater rights than Americans in some or even many areas.
Thailand:
- abolished slavery bloodlessly
- granted voting rights to men and women at the same time
- makes oral contraception available without prescription (there are two sides to this, but not requiring prescription does mean you aren’t forced to deal with judgey medical people)
- universal healthcare
- lifted the ban on LGBT people to serve in the military in 2005 (the US dropped Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell in 2011)
- female prime minister (current)
- 45% of senior management positions are held by women. The USA? Why, a honking 15%, which is well below the global average. More information here. 30% of Thai CEOs are women
- 1.92% unemployment rate in 2011; our highest was 5.43%. The US right now? 8.3%
- far, far better treatment of trans people–also far, far from perfect, but much better than in the USA (and many western Christian countries)
I could go on like “abortion’s illegal except from rape/cases where it’ll cause harm to the woman, but at least nobody’s ever tried to pass a bill forcing women to carry stillborns to term” but that’s really, really low bar, don’t you think? Or “our military doesn’t go bombing other countries to bring them democracy.” Again, fucking low bar, man.
So! What about you? In how many ways (and I know it’s a lot of ways) does your non-western country kick the USA’s ass in progressiveness? Go! No, I do not want to hear about how your western country is more progressive than the USA, because you get to do that thanks to the heaps of privilege you’ve got through economic power developed on the back of colonialism, so shut the fuck up. Cheers.
EDIT: let’s clarify a bit. It is true that the demographic that indulges in gloating over American “superiority” tends not to value progress. However, I see very many self-identified liberal westerners (and USians particularly) who regard the “third world” with colonialist condescension thinly masked as humanitarian, infantilizing pity. The “third world” is a synonym for poverty, communist/totalitarian terror, and 24/7 violation of every human right known to man. It’s why when we apply for a US visa we’re treated like criminals; US officials believe we will overstay and work there illegally, because surely if you’re from Thirdworldia you must be chomping at the bit to escape it. We must be hungering for US liberty. We must be so envious.
The reality is that a “third-world shithole”–the fantasy westerners like to maintain in order to bolster their faltering superiority complex–is exactly what many USians are living in; the prevalence of this fantasy even among self-identified progressives is exactly why it’s ironic, and worth pointing out, that citizens of many countries like mine in fact enjoy greater rights than an average US citizen. If the US is in the godawful state it is and still gets to call itself “first world,” then what does “third world” mean?
Not having an army? Lacking the power to resist US hegemony and bullying? That’s really what it is about. It’s not about civil rights. It’s not about being jealous of western democracy and freedom. You’ll find remarkably few people who are.
Note: many westerners consider, say, Japan conservative/regressive even though it is very much “first-world,” hence my “non-western” qualification.
Alex D MacFarlane (@foxtailedgirl)
/ March 20, 2012There was a really interesting article at The Independent about where in the world it is best to be a woman – focusing mainly on specific elements of being a woman, such a being an executive (“top dog”) or being a mother or driving a car or going to university or being a politician, etc. While they do make a claim towards one country (Iceland) being the best overall, I think this article actually disproves the notion that any one country is The Bestest Evar at standards of living and women’s rights (and I’m sure similar points could be made for queer rights, non-majority-ethnicity rights, non-majority-religion rights, etc).
And, surprise surprise, the West does not appear in every single category. Here are the categories where non-Western countries appear:
2. Best place to be a politician: Rwanda
4. Best place to read and write: Lesotho
5. Best place to be head of state: Sri Lanka
7. Best place to be a top dog: Thailand
9. Best place for economic participation: Bahamas
10. Best place to be a journalist: Caribbean
12. Best place for labour force participation: Burundi
14. Best place to go to university: Qatar
15. Best place to live long: Japan
18. Best place to leave your husband: Guam
19. Best place to drive a car: India
20. Best place for high-skilled jobs: Jamaica
The article also quotes a few women from around the world talking about local efforts to boost women’s rights and change the situation, whether at a local community level or in the government.
Here’s an example:
‘I’m an MP – and we are in the majority’
Connie Bwiza Sekamana, 33, is an MP in Rwanda, the only country in the world where women make up the majority of parliament. When she entered politics, only 12 per cent of MPs were women, but she helped to fight for 30 per cent minimum representation in the post-genocide constitution
“I felt I was given a special mission: the voice of the women who were the most victimised by the genocide. This is where laws are made, and the women here are highly educated. We can raise issues affecting women in parliament and are listened to as much or even more than the men.”
Awesome. <3
bmharas
/ March 21, 2012Oh, you! You know American’s are the best! We’re awesome! Except for the liars on Fox News. And you might get a kick out of this: http://articles.cnn.com/2012-03-15/politics/politics_arizona-contraception-controversy_1_religious-beliefs-employers-health-insurance?_s=PM:POLITICS
acrackedmoon
/ March 21, 2012…are American states racing each other to the bottom on this war on women thing?
bmharas
/ March 21, 2012Of course! It is election year after all! This was their warm up: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/29/us/virginia-senate-passes-revised-ultrasound-bill.html?pagewanted=all
And it just gets better: http://theweek.com/article/index/225214/rush-limbaugh-vs-sandra-fluke-a-timeline
the twisted spinster
/ March 21, 2012Nonsense. All these quaint little “countries” you talk about aren’t real countries, because only the United States of America is a real country. Places like Thailand are obviously Disney exhibits. They don’t have real history, unless you count that musical, and believe me many Americans do. (Countries that have not been touched by the magical hand of Hollywood might not even exist as Disney exhibits.)
Or conversely, none of the countries that have any freedom or democratic processes that weren’t blessed by a European don’t really have real freedom or democracy. Trust me, I’m an American. We went to the Moon, you know.
Emil Söderman
/ March 21, 2012^^ Alex, your link doesen’t work. (which is too bad because I really wanted to see that list)
acrackedmoon
/ March 21, 2012I fixed it! Here’s the link, again.
Gourmet Neurovore
/ March 21, 2012Got sources on any of those stats?
They could be very fun indeed for beating people over the head with.
acetachyon
/ March 21, 2012So has Thailand gotten rid of censorship? Can people now make fun of the King if they wanted to? Can they now show THE KING AND I and/or ANNA AND THE KING on TV or in theatres? Can Thai citizens get a copy of THE KING NEVER SMILES? ‘Cuz that would be cool.
acrackedmoon
/ March 21, 2012You’re right, being able to show shitty films (and I mean that as an objective thing, quite apart from subject matter) is a lot more important than making women carry stillborn fetuses to term. Fuck yeah America, where “free speech” allows Fred Phelps to picket funerals. Go go go America!
the twisted spinster
/ March 21, 2012I was so hoping no one would have the gall to bring up that movie. I forgot I come from a country where “free speech” means you just have to insult someone or you’re not really being “free.”
Re the Phelps Klan: I’d support their right to picket funerals only if they agreed to have their signs permanently surgically attached to their heads. The only reason no one has run over those yucksters at one of their drool parades is because no one wants Phelps matter on their vehicles. That stuff just eats paint.
sologdin
/ March 21, 2012the case has been considerably understated. fr’instance, a listing of items relevant to the failure of the united states to adhere to the extremely low standard of avoiding commission of the crime of aggression might be found here.
simply summarized, the crimes are monstrous, somewhere between apocalyptic and science fiction.
please be advised, however, that the type of US citizen who would make the more or less insigificant boasts detailed supra are also:
a ) unaware either that thailand exists or have conflated it with thaiwan, thaijikistan, or thaijikiwan;
b ) not the type to get their feathers ruffled by the accusation that the US is not the most progressive state in the world, as progressive is something of an insult for them;
c ) believes that the main problem with the world is too much communism and insufficient jesus; and
d) these types of US citizens actually do appreciate a number of things more than jingo gloating, including but not limited to guns, jesus, things without words, elvis sightings, UFO sightings, bigfoot sightings, things without numbers, primary color mixing (brush optional), and other recreational forms that may fit within those few hours per day when they are liberated from their employers.
please take notice that we shall be able to prove conclusively that the united states is more progressive than the gulf oil monarchies, the third reich, the holy roman empire, tsarist russia, the kingdom of gondor, narnia, and david cross’ new freeland. it is accordingly a very low standard to beat the US in progressiveness these days.
acrackedmoon
/ March 21, 2012I don’t know, I’m not a great fan of Tolkien but possibly the Kingdom of Gondor violates its own citizens’ privacy less than the US does; same with Narnia. ;) Thanks for the link. That’s scary.
I see self-identified “liberals” who like to do quite a bit of gloating–or see acetachyon up there derailing–and commit their share of “fuck yeah I’m so proud to be American,” etc. Liberals also tend to use “third world” thoughtlessly and buy into lazy tourist/travel-fiction stereotypes as much as anyone else. If they aren’t gloating, they’re inclined to regard us with a sort of colonialist, condescending pity.
Larry
/ March 21, 2012While those are bad, you forgot to cite:
Infant mortality rates in urban areas and the South
Percentage of people under 50 without a high school diploma
Voting participation rates
Number of Americans too poor to pay the minimum federal income tax
Obesity rates
Saddest part is that there’s so much to cite as examples.
the twisted spinster
/ March 21, 2012“Number of Americans too poor to pay the minimum federal income tax”
That’s actually not how our tax system works. People under a certain level of income don’t pay income taxes. On the other hand, that level of income is too low to live off of by itself. You can get assistance such as food stamps and help with your rent, but it’s dependent upon a variety of factors. And figuring out how to wangle money out of the state takes up a lot of time that you could spend looking for a job.
Re the obesity thing, a true story: in 1981 my mother and I went to Europe. Everywhere we went on the Continent we were told “American women are too skinny.” And it was true — really fat people were either elderly or had something wrong with their metabolism. That’s why there was always the one “fat kid that got picked on” in every school story — there weren’t hundreds of fat kids.
greenknight01
/ March 21, 2012You got there before me. Infant mortality is the big one, but general access to healthcare is another measure.
Percentage of bancruptcies caused by medical bills would be another masure where the US does not fare well.
For me, the point where I could no longer close my eyes to the appaling conditions under which a not insignificant part of the population leaves was Katrina.
Hey, add forced migration to the list: many of those people were carted to Texas against their wish and given no means to return to their home area.
Jaymee Goh
/ March 21, 2012I read an article a while ago on how Malaysian women are pretty much equal within STEM fields back home, compared to the States, where it seems so obnoxiously sexist that women are driven out of these fields. Wonder if I could find it again…
acrackedmoon
/ March 22, 2012Ohhh. I would so like to read that. Not that it’s surprising though, SEA seems to generally do better about that kind of thing.
ordinarydistractions
/ March 21, 2012I’ve lived in the US all my life, and I couldn’t agree more with what a shit-hole this place is. In many ways, I’m ashamed to live here. I’m ashamed at the way all minority groups are treated here (meaning any groups that aren’t filled with straight, white men). I’m ashamed that intolerant religious groups feel like they have the authority to shove their beliefs down the throats of everyone else here, and I’m ashamed that current politicians seem more interested in taking rights away than ensuring equality for everyone.
But I’m especially ashamed at the way this country treats everyone else in the world. I hate that we feel like we have the right to tell anyone else how to live, how they should run their country, or who they should have for a leader. I feel like we’re just a country of hypocrites, bullying others into doing things our way, even though our way isn’t even working here at home.
acrackedmoon
/ March 22, 2012There there. I understand many individual Americans are anything but supportive of US foreign policies.
It’s really the “the US likes to tell everyone else what to do” that’s made me single it out. Not that it’s alone among western powers in that, but–as linked above–it’s probably has been one of the most successful, if not the very most, at ongoing contemporary imperialism. While pretending to be about democracy. What weirds me out is that in the last few years US politicians seem bent on running their own citizens into the ground. I mean, in a sense that’s not odd; corrupt politicians doing that is nothing new. But you’d think they would have a little more foresight than that.
sologdin
/ March 22, 2012While pretending to be about democracy. What weirds me out is that in the last few years US politicians seem bent on running their own citizens into the ground
not mutually exclusive. michael parenti’s argument on this point is that the propaganda arm of US imperialism is directed mainly at its own citizens–and this has been one of the most expensive and successful instances of psychological warfare in world history. the aim there is to persuade US citizens, even while the bombs are falling on illiterate agricultural laborers who own nothing, that the US is benevolent, well-intentioned, fair, just, free, and so on; that the war effort is to restore freedom, defeat evildoers, save allies, save the people being bombed, &c.; that other countries are good, except for rogue states and/or failed states; that the good states need help, that the US gives help because it’s the bestest, &c. &c.
needless to say, chomsky wrote a book about how the US is in fact a failed state, and william blum wrote another about how the US is a rogue state.
the point of the propaganda effort was always so that the state needn’t machinegun US citizens, but rather convince them to continue their expropriatory relations with the US ruling class. if the screws are being tightened now, it may be that the propaganda effort is slipping or it may be that bush regime was just astonishingly incompetent at running that narrative.
Communard Scum
/ March 22, 2012You forgot to bring up the United States prison system which would be comedic if it wasn’t so horrifying. At present, according to official government statistics, 0.7% of the adult population, and a full 4.3% of the adult black male population, are incarcerated. 3.1% of the population is in parole, on probation, in prison, etc.
For comparison purposes, at its absolute height in 1953 (shortly before Stalin’s death), the GULAG imprisoned about 1% of the population of the Soviet Union.
Then there’s all the rape, which Americans fucking *joke* about, and aaaaah. If you want to read about how the United States is one of the most objectively horrifying nations on Earth, just read through these posts:
http://lfeffortposts.wordpress.com/category/law-and-the-machine/
There’s a lot of words but it is fucking disgusting and I can hardly believe that it is a thing.
Captain Falcon (@psychoxnino)
/ March 22, 2012Just one thing about a link in the thread regarding “reactionary” leaders, interventions and proxy wars fought by the U.S.: Where communism is mentioned, nothing in U.S. foreign policy from the end of WWII up to now would make any sense unless the historical presence and actions of the U.S.S.R. are also taken into account. While the CIA did have a presence in Afghanistan, the Soviet army did too, with an open invasion and occupation of the country. In the many similiar situations, each side would proclaim that the other side acted first and that they were only reacting to signs of aggression out of consideration for an infringed upon population. Each side would inflict violence and bloodshed on a largely unwilling third party, and this would happen many times in many different countries and continents. Mao Zedong killed more people than Chiang Kai-Shek, though both killed many, and both remain controversial figures with strong supporters and strong critics. The 14th Dalai Lama may have accepted U.S. funding for his cause, but he later conceded that the CIA only acted to protect its own interests rather than Tibetan interests. Furthermore, in cases of both U.S. and Soviet intervention, there were almost always legitimate internal struggles taking place in those regions; the superpowers merely attempted to capitalize on them for the gain of their respective countries. Listing a political leader as strictly an American or Soviet puppet-dictator or proxy can mislead, obscure and undercut the perception of each nation state as its own actor with its own conflicts and agendas. Chiang Kai-Shek did not do it for America, and Mao Zedong did not do it for the Soviets. I don’t object to criticism of either U.S. or Russian intervention, whether past or present, but when one ignores one half of the equation, it’s actually not possible to gain any understanding of the situation.
angelrenoir
/ March 22, 2012My teacher says that women get 70% the amount of wage than men for the same job =___= I’m not sure if it only applies to the US or in anywhere else, but it’s still pathetic.
Inverarity Pynchon
/ March 22, 2012One thing missing from your analysis: if you are comfortably middle class, have a job with health insurance, and especially if you’re white, the U.S. still is a pretty good place to live, relative to the rest of the world. Our own “third world” population is effectively invisible to most of the mainstream U.S. population (by which I mean, the people to whom all media is targeted).
This is why you see that blind spot that even afflicts liberals: while progressives understand in the abstract that the U.S. can kind of suck if you’re poor and if you’re not of the pale male persuasion, most of them don’t really get that it’s a completely different country to many people less privileged than themselves. For example, we (including myself here) grew up taking it for granted that the police are there to protect us; it took me a while to really get that for many Americans, the police are absolutely not your friends. (And that it’s systemic, it’s not necessarily a matter of individual police officers being jackbooted thugs who want to oppress poor POC, because most of them aren’t.)
tl;dr version: America is a great place to live if you are rich, and a crap place to live if you are poor.
acrackedmoon
/ March 22, 2012That kinda describes the world, tbh. Comfortably middle-class folks with decent jobs in Thailand are not, generally, suffering in a quagmire of despair or anything–though certainly lack many privileges equivalent Americans enjoy (because imperialism).
Wong Chia Chi
/ March 22, 2012Hey I liked this blog! One thing I love about living in the age of the internet is that PoC can start dialogue amongst ourselves without interference form people who obviously have an agenda. I’m in the U.S. and I know it’s a piece of shit, not just for me as a black woman but as a U.S. citizen too (sadly in most people’s minds the two are not mutually exclusive).
I naturally block out any bullshit I hear about other countries. I know from a research project that Thailand has an amazing HIV/AIDS treatment program that needs to be replicated here. I’d like to hear more about Thailand and other countries without it being filtered through Imperialistspeak/whitespeak, but I know there is something of a language barrier too.
The links people provided were excellent too.
Left Eye Looking
/ March 24, 2012Thailand does?
I read an article about Brazil’s HIV/AIDS treatment program and how effective it has been to prevent it and other STD’s/STI’s in the sex industry especially in large cities like Sao Paolo and Rio de Janeiro. Apparently in the 90′s and early 2000′s the gov’t of Brazil really made a point to focus on sex education and awareness including providing campaigns to educate prostitutes.
I think that is awesome!
A large part of the U.S problem is how the country started. The U.S. has puritanical roots born from the protestant reformation. This is part of the problem. I suppose if the U.S. were a Catholic or Buddhist country, things would be different.
creepyhomeless
/ March 22, 2012I can almost hear Ryan, Pat and Callan S grinding their teeth.
The HDI is an indicator of standards of living in the same way that the IQ is an indicator of intelligence.
The Land Of The Fascists is most likely going to become something like a hyper-capitalist, hyper-stratified version of Iran, but with rampant racism, more advanced technology to enforce the “harsh punishments”, and borderline-Orwellian “copyright” laws. Just give them time.
Oh, I think I have figured out what “first world” means. Common “first-world country” traits:
-Pyramidal society. Abysmal class inequalities.
-Rigidly male-dominated and very serious business about it. But women can vote and wear heels, so misogyny is over, right? Right…
-Incompetent government.
-Educational system that is pure shit. College gets a special mention in the shit department.
-Rigidly dominated by bankers, corporations, the upper classes and the church. But everyone calls it a “democracy”. Bonus points if it’s still a monarchy.
-Police force is despotic and incompetent.
-What passes for “left” and “right” are interchangeable, and closer to the far-right end of the spectrum.
-Welfare is a turd. Healthcare ranges from mediocre to incredibly shitty, depending on the underclass you belong to.
-The Illuminati: The Invisible Hand around your Uterus. It will close abruptly as soon as the religious groups get wanky enough, or as soon as the tyrannical ruler- oops, I mean head of state decides that the “declining birth rates” are a problem*.
-Peacefully protesting against the government / job market is considered a scary, anti-social, “militant left-wing” thing to do. Being called “left-wing”, of course, is a terrible insult.
-Immigrants are the Antichrist, and they are here to take your job and steal “your” women. Also, they are criminals and fundies. No exceptions.
I consider most of the world a shithole, particularly in the human rights department**. Indeed there is no such thing as The Bestest Of The Bestest Country, if the worldwide protests inspired by the arab spring are anything to go by. Anyway, it’s good to know that developing nations are faring a lot better than western governments want us to believe. I can’t speak for everyone, but a lot of westerners who say clueless things about eastern nations don’t do it in bad faith, it’s simply glaring ignorance. Most versions of Wikipedia are biased as fuck, and history books and encyclopedias gloss over incovenient facts *cough*colonialism apologia*cough*.
* Nevermind that the world is ridiculously overpopulated. When they say “there aren’t enough babies being born” they mean “there aren’t enough white babies being born”.
** It’s the year 2012. I think we can agree women are people, not life-support-systems for wombs. The number of countries that understand that is surprisingly low. The number of countries that treat trans people like human is also very low. There are still places where gay sex is criminalized. Etc.
Emil Söderman
/ March 23, 2012“The HDI is an indicator of standards of living in the same way that the IQ is an indicator of intelligence.”
To be fair, the US doesen’t actually rate very highly on the various HDI scales. (There’s been some criticism on how the HDI is essentially a way of computing how scandinavian a country is, though)
katyourwittsend
/ March 23, 2012Being female and queer in the U.S. during an election season wherein it feels like half of my county is foaming at the mouth about how our president is a communist anti-religion secret muslim who wants to bring back the guillotine because everyone knows how liberal Americans are obscenely jealous of the rich: I seriously HOPE the rest of the world is better off because HOLY mother of Darwin, what is this fuckery?
This country is a cultural wasteland wherein a ridiculously high percentage of the population thinks that either America Is Teh Best Evah, or that Europelandia Is Teh Best Evah. The rest of the world, except Japan, is still Doormatistan or something. Screw the fact that civilized people have been living throughout the middle east, the Indian subcontinent, and Asia (all perfectly capable of taking care of their own communities, politics and trade) for thousands of years before the Europeans trod in and decided they knew better how to run them: starting with dividing the places up for their own political and economic benefit.
Because clearly Western view is best view, is only view, is young and plucky and modern and always knows best, right? Right?
Because young and plucky with good intentions and great expectations is the best way to be, with no concept of how they might be clumsy children crushing bits of archaic unwestern history, culture and philosophy under their big military combat boots. The west is full of childish enthusiasm but no grasp of delicacy, tact, or respect for older cultures who might be able to teach us a few things if we would sit down, shut up, pay attention, and bother to listen instead of merely waiting to speak about how much better or sensible or progressive Western-ways are––the rest of the world might stop thinking we’re all a bunch of dicks, if only a little. Mind you, most of us are dicks; I know, I live here and they’re currently fighting about who does and does not have control over my ovaries.
Maybe people in America could even start to see how ridiculous it is to think that ANYONE would be happy about their country being invaded by a bunch of Americans who want to tell them how to run their own government.
That’s sort of the heart of imperialism: believing that your civilization is the grown up, and clearly has to “babysit” the other, less mature and inherently inferior and uncivilized nation. And thats what it is, when “the Enlightened American Burden is to educate all of the foolish third-worldians about the backwardness of their ways.”
To that I say: bullshit. America’s time as the “New Roman Empire” is ending. Now we’re the new British Empire, the new “Victorians”: conservative and thick-skulled and ignorant while proclaiming that all things should be forced to conform to middle-class white-bread values. Anything that does not to conform to those values is “regrettably inferior” and we do condescend to help them, like the good charitable folk we are.
Same imperialism, but with a bleeding-heart tacked on, and even more ignorance applied, because surely good intentions means they don’t have to know anything beforehand. Right?
Add that to the previously mentions dozens of examples of how other nations have us beat when it comes to education, women’s rights, LGBT rights, et all. We can’t even fix our own problems, but surely, thinks America-the-Beautiful, the rest of the world must still be jealous.
I live in America. It still hurts my head trying to fit my thoughts around the bizarre cognitive-dissonance gymnastics that the socio-political discourse goes through, around here.
sologdin
/ March 23, 2012It’s why when we apply for a US visa we’re treated like criminals; US officials believe we will overstay and work there illegally
yeah, it’s not even an ultra vires act by superjingo government employees, but is rather a statutory imposition upon those seeking admission to the united states as non-immigrants: section 214 of the INA–the presumption of immigrant intent, which places the burden on the person seeking admission to the united states to prove that they will not violate their status once admitted. one can make the proof by showing the reasons that one has to return, though the general condition of the state of origin is relevant, and i supsect that persons from states with the worst reputations in the US will be denied admission on the basis of prejudices held by officials and arising out of rightwing talk-radio.
trevoresque
/ March 23, 2012Ah yes, America bashing. Distancing ourselves from the U.S. is Canada’s traditional expression of nationalism. Look at our health care! Look at our same-sex marriage! Look at our lovely lack of Confederate swastikas! But recent news about northern aboriginal communities has really driven home how terrible we treat people. Since “Canada” (whatever that means) has benefited from centuries of imperialism, isn’t the least we can do ensure no one is starving to death? I mean, why isn’t that THE main policy of every political party? Sometimes I think it would be nice if Christianity’s Very Own Jesus Christ showed up suddenly and was all, “Hey, what’s with all the starving people, you dumbfucks?”
P.S. Ever read any scifi about benevolent imperialism? Like, where the alien invaders were actually just dropping by to teach us how to use space magic. I don’t think I have, and I’ve certainly never encountered such a thing studying history. Perhaps my whiteness makes me think such a scenario would be interesting. It is often used as an excuse, that’s for sure.
Left Eye Looking
/ March 24, 2012@trevoresque
“Ah yes, America bashing. Distancing ourselves from the U.S. is Canada’s traditional expression of nationalism. Look at our health care! Look at our same-sex marriage! Look at our lovely lack of Confederate swastikas! But recent news about northern aboriginal communities has really driven home how terrible we treat people.”
I think the author of this blog post was bashing all developed nations that thumb their nose at the developing world with condescension and arrogance. So Western Europe and Canada would also fit in with the U.S., since they’ve benefited from imperialism. I could be wrong, but I think the author wasn’t just focusing on the U.S.
trevoresque
/ March 25, 2012Yes, that’s what I was fumbling towards. We’re in agreement. In Canada we tend to ignore our imperialist heritage because we’re not a “great power” and we’re “nicer than America”.
tigerpetals
/ July 13, 2012Childhood’s End by Arthur C. Clarke. I can’t remember the quality, only that aliens came and stopped all war. There was peace for a while, and then SPOILERS they turned out to be there to get humanity to the next stage of evolution, involving them becoming part of a hivemind. Also they all looked like Satan, because humanity subconsciously knew that their appearance would lead to the end of the race as they knew it, so they kept themselves hidden at first. But it’s not treated as an evil thing or something that shouldn’t happen, if I remember correctly.
saajanpatel
/ March 23, 2012“Add that to the previously mentions dozens of examples of how other nations have us beat when it comes to education, women’s rights, LGBT rights, et all. We can’t even fix our own problems, but surely, thinks America-the-Beautiful, the rest of the world must still be jealous.”
I’d be interested in seeing the most accepting LGBT countries if anyone has that.
Left Eye Looking
/ March 24, 2012@saajanpatel
The Scandinavian countries (all of them) and most Western European countries have legalized same sex marriage.
As for developing nations, Argentina has legalized marriage. Brazil allows same sex partnerships w/tax benefits and same-sex couples to adopt children; but hasn’t legalized marriage although civil unions are fine. Uruguay and Colombia also allow civil unions and recognized that LGBT couples should be granted the same legal and tax rights as heterosexual couples. South Africa allows same sex couples who are cohabitating to have their partnership labeled a marriage or a civil union.
It seems that most of Latin America and Western and Central Europe are on board with rights of the LGBT community and the right to marriage, or at least the rights to tax and legal benefits.
Countries that seem to have the hardest time with it are the Caucasus mt. countries, North/West/East African countries, Central Asia, China and Malaysia, and the countries on or around the Arabian Peninsula….and of course the Unite States.
I was surprised that Israel didn’t allow same sex marriages….oh well.
saajanpatel
/ March 24, 2012Thanks Left Eye Looking!
I’ve heard a little about the struggle for LGBT rights in Israel, but don’t know too much about it.
It’s a sign of my ignorance but I’m surprised by the rights extended in South American countries. Not sure if this ignorance is being in the US (“we’re more liberal!” bias) or isolation by fauxgressive class privilege (“freedom from religious culture” means freedom!).
I suspect the latter, given that IMO it’s among the most pernicious of privileges barring enforced ceilings like caste privilege.
Emil Söderman
/ March 24, 2012^^ Sweden was also, IIRC, the first country to allow persons to legally change their gender, in the 1970′s. (though with some pretty sever restrictions, the law is getting woefully outdated by now and was up for change, but the proposal seems to have been buried in a committee)
^ Israel is still running by some version of the Ottoman Millet system, which makes the relations somewhat complex, from what my Israeli acquintances say this basically means the conservative religious groups have a disproportionate influence on civil law.
naishee
/ March 24, 2012“(though with some pretty sever restrictions, the law is getting woefully outdated by now and was up for change, but the proposal seems to have been buried in a committee)”
Actually, the outdated part of the law is that trans people have to be sterilized before undegoing the transition. The law is set to be changed next year, after the Christian Democrats FINALLY gave in. The proposal isn’t buried in cimmittee as much as… working its way through the slow Swedish legal system.
Amber Supanova
/ March 24, 2012I am an American. I just came here to say I AGREE WITH YOU :)
I am sure you’ll get some hate mail, but I moved OUT of America, first to Canada, later to Turkey, and now I’m in Germany. I’ve seen lots of coin sides. America is not the holy grail and I am sooooo sickened by US politics / culture (or lack-thereof).
Nice article. I can throw in some stuff about the countries I’ve lived in, but I’m not in the mood. But I’ll just say that–as a born, raised, and educated American woman with Native American blood and ancestors that came on the Mayflower with Columbus–I agree with you. That country is out of its mind.
acrackedmoon
/ March 24, 2012I know someone who’s trying to get out of the US. I don’t think she is alone in that, either. It’s a very odd thing to see, since imperialist media works so hard to indoctrinate the world with the idea that getting out of wherever you are and into the US is the singular best thing you could possibly do with your life, the highest aspiration.
saajanpatel
/ March 24, 2012It’s anecdata, but I do people who want to only spend a short amount of time in the US working and then leave. Though I suspect it’s both sides of the coin on that one, people who dislike the freedom/tolerance it does offer relative to home and those who find the prejudice and distrust/blame of foreigners irritating.
And of course, those who simply like their home country better for their own varied reasons.
I know being of Indian descent there’s a good deal of complexity, as I sit in America benefiting a great deal from imperialism/colonialism as well as caste privilege. (Family likely wouldn’t be here if we were Harijans (respectful term for “untouchables”.))
faustusnotes
/ March 26, 2012infrastructure spending – I watched Sicko and large areas of the USA look really poor and degenerate.
viciousink
/ April 12, 2012It may be that I am from one of the thirteen original states of the US, but I tend to take a different view of my country than people from the rest of it. Texans are always so damn quick to overcompensate because they were one of the first states to secede from the Union before the Civil War.
I love my country. I love it enough to realize that something is very, very, VERY wrong with it. We aren’t blind to our own shortcomings in America, and we hate them more than you ever could. It’s easy to sit on your side of the world and look at our bullshit media and come to the conclusion that the Yanks are a bunch of rich white assholes who sit around lighting their gold-filigreed cigars with hundred dollar bills.
That’s not the case. I live in a country where a handful of people live very, very well and almost everyone else is struggling to get by. Where teenagers will drop out of school and go into the army because our educational system is a joke and they have no place else to go. Where we have a really decent president who is never allowed to be effective because the opposite political party is too busy lining their own pockets and indulging in blatant racism.
I live in a scary fucking place.
The media will tell us, and anyone who watches our news that everything is fine. That’s why we have half an hour broadcasts on which celebrity is humping which, but you’d be hard-pressed to get a station to talk about the war that this country had been involved in for over a decade. Yeah, we know. We’re not stupid and we’re not ignorant. We know.
There are pockets of a fundamentalism I know of as “Americanism” it is a (let’s be honest, mostly republican) ideology that America is a flawless place and that everyone else should strive to be like us. It is a front that a lot of our news puts on to brainwash its own people into ignoring the devastating faults of our homeland.
But…
There is also something in this country that has always existed, Since a bunch of crazy treasonous rebels decided to make ice tea in Boston Harbor. We have something that keeps us getting up and going to our shitty jobs day after day and persevering through the war in our own senate: we have hope.
Hope that things will get better even when the people who are supposed to give a shit about our best interest lie and manipulate us. Hope that the infighting between democrats and republicans will come to an end.
Columnist John Devore aptly wrote “This past year, we learned that karma is a bitch. That Wall Street is run by Hamburglars. The government is basically too many pigs at too small a trough. That we’re broke, at war(s) and, instead of dealing with it, we’ve chosen to watch celebrities dance, dance, dance for the bloodthirsty hordes. We torture to make ourselves feel safer, cheat each other to make ourselves richer and have generally behaved like raging assholes.
I get all that, and still I say with total and utter conviction: America is awesome. And we’re awesome because we are batshit, out of our minds crazy. The French are intellectuals, the Russians are brooders and the Chinese are hard workers. Americans are crazy. Our optimism, ambition, and self-interest verges on the manic…”
It’s so damn true. We believe we are special because, in our own crazy way, we are. We have the utter and inalienable right to pursue happiness, even despite the almost insurmountable odds that we will never find it. On top of that, we’re basically pretty nice people. We’re not sane, but we’re not the collective devil of the world. As a matter of fact, Secretary of State, Hilary Clinton met just a few weeks ago with the Geneva Convention to rally the World Nations into stopping the criminalization of homosexuals in Uganda. That pretty damn cool. The conservatives in this country suck, but they’re progressing into a more accepting world, no matter how deeply they dig in their heels.
We never do anything half-assed. Whether our decisions are good or bad, we generally go balls to the wall. Do Americans a favor, forget what you see on TV. If you want to know about this country talk to the people who live here. We know how fucked up it is. We know what problems we face. We know that there is a time coming when someone bigger and badder and better armed is going to come along and knock us off our self-proclaimed throne.
It’s going to happen. It always does.
Until that time, those of us who thrive on our hope will continue to live on our optimism. We have not other choice. Again, it’s easy to write about how much America sucks from the other side of the planet. Until you’ve lived here and experienced the faults and prejudices, and bullshit of this country first hand, you’re just a… what did you call them?
“Self-important tourist”?
acrackedmoon
/ April 12, 2012tl;dr you are defensive and buy into the idea that Americans are unique, special snowflakes.
viciousink
/ April 12, 2012I have no idea what tl;dr means, but I actually don’t have a positive or negative opinion of the post. You have good points, but you seem a little too determined to talk about how terrible America is, despite the good qualities it possesses. And America is unique; why else would you go out of your way to talk about it extensively, even though you live on pretty much the other side of the planet? I’m not saying it’s any more special than any other country, but it certainly has unique qualities. We have our idiosyncrasies just like every other place. That would be like me telling you that you’re buying into the idea that Thailand is a unique special snowflake. You’re saying it isn’t? I’ve never been to Thailand, I know only general facts about it, and I have no idea if it’s a generic, uninteresting place. I’m sure it’s not. Would it be fair to say that Thailand is unique and/or special? Well, that’s how I think of America.You have a mighty go at what you call “privileged white boys” and often you claim they are American. But doesn’t this post, which claims that America is wrong and that it is not as privileged as other “third-world” counties run counter to every claim you’ve made about western culture so far?
acrackedmoon
/ April 12, 2012I hereby award you “Missing the Point” medal of the week, and touch your shoulder with the Dildo of Cluelessness. Go forth, brave knight, and spread your American idiocy!
Haha no. America isn’t special or unique. I’m talking about it extensively because America is an imperialist force. The rest of the world doesn’t talk about your sack-of-shit nation because it’s interesting, unique, or amazing. It’s not because we envy, admire, or want to be like it (and given the current ongoing war on women it’s waging…). We talk about it because we have to, because it wields economic power and likes to bully the shit of everyone it perceives to have less power than it. We take interest in your affairs because we need to survive in case you up and decide it’s a fine idea to bring us “democracy” with your bombs while stealing our natural resources. We take interest because your stupidity affects the rest of the world, and because your government consists mainly of murderous xenophobes who institute jingoist foreign policies. Racism is one of the US’ biggest exports.
You’re an embodiment of American self-importance, ignorance, and sheltered obliviousness. I hope you aren’t older than fifteen, because an adult talking and thinking like you would be embarrassing. If I was feeling very kind I’d ban you to protect you from yourself, but I’m not that kind, so talk on.
geckopirateship
/ October 10, 2012You seem to buy into the image of Amurrica as the lovable oaf at a party, ignoring that the oaf is a lot less lovable when he vomits on your couch.
Next Friday
/ April 12, 2012This is fucking hillarious! So that’s what she was doing two weeks ago when my state’s representatives voted to criminalize abortion! Collecting ‘cool’ points using UGANDA. Why the hell is my Secretary of State suddenly so shy to speak abot the issues in her own fucking backyard?
the twisted spinster
/ April 13, 2012Good God, do you have any thoughts that aren’t a cliché from the Concerned White Liberal handbook?
“We never do anything half-assed. Whether our decisions are good or bad, we generally go balls to the wall.”
You’re scaring Ted Nugent.
By the way, when an American complains about the bulk of the nation “struggling” to “make ends meet,” that usually means “trying to figure out how to both pay the cable bill and have enough left over to pay the mortgage.” Barring a very few exceptions no American is in danger of starving to death.
shaunduke
/ April 13, 2012“We aren’t blind to our own shortcomings in America, and we hate them more than you ever could.”
Yes, we are. We are so blind to our shortcomings that our politicians can openly ignore or scoff at discussions of America’s genocidal past and *not a damned thing is done to them by the public.* We are so blind that half the country openly pretends that race is not an issue here. We are so blind that half the country believes race is something we should argue over, rather than something to rectify by changing our social landscape. We are so blind that we more often than not, as a people, intentionally ignore the awful shit that we’ve done to other peoples and other countries, and still do today.
A handful have their eyes open, and yet that handful get waved away like crazy people.
“It’s easy to sit on your side of the world and look at our bullshit media and come to the conclusion that the Yanks are a bunch of rich white assholes who sit around lighting their gold-filigreed cigars with hundred dollar bills.”
Actually, it’s not easy for acrackedmoon. And to your first point, that “we” (Americans) hate America’s flaws more than she ever could. Bullshit. This would be like you telling a Native American that you hate what we did to them more than they ever could. And you would deserve you looks you received in turn.
Remember what America has done to numerous countries in Southeast Asia. We’ve exported our culture, often in uneven trade relationships. We’ve bombed and killed millions in wars that never needed to be fought. We colonized and raped and pillaged entire nations. We exported prostitution on a scale that would make our police forces throw in their badges for want of the ability to stop it.
So, no. It’s really not easy for acrackedmoon to tear the shit out of America. It’s hard precisely because of our history in her part of the world. They know our flaws far better than we ever could.
“We never do anything half-assed.”
We haven’t done anything full-assed since World War 2. Read your history. Even when we have done pretty shit things, we’ve done it without a fully plan. Just look at Vietnam. No exit strategy. We shouldn’t have been Agent Oranging the shit out of the jungles anyway, but it’s pretty shit for us to sit there without any concept of what we’re up to. The same for Afghanistan and Iraq. And no Iran? Maybe they’ll be the next ones we’ll invade, occupy, and then feign shock at having no clue what to do next…
“Until that time, those of us who thrive on our hope will continue to live on our optimism.”
The problem is that our optimism comes at the expense of others. America has been optimistic since the 1930s. We’ve wandered around saying we’re amazing and we’ll get even more amazing over time. But while we’re saying that, we’re fucking over other people. We can have arguments about when fucking is justified, but we can’t have arguments about whether it’s happening. American Optimism is a privilege that comes with a heavy price.
“Until you’ve lived here and experienced the faults and prejudices, and bullshit of this country first hand, you’re just a… what did you call them?
“Self-important tourist”?”
And, again, you not have to experience the U.S. on its own soil to understand how it impacts the rest of the world, and how it fairs in that relation. In other words: sure, there might be something particular about your experience that acrackedmoon cannot grasp, but that is irrelevant to the point being made; namely, that America is a country which tells the rest of the world that it is great, but in fact has no concept of its violence towards nations too small to rightfully stand up against it, and no concept of how its own policies have made its “We’re Exceptional” stance an ironic joke.
And that’s what I’ve got to say to that.
E. M. Edwards (@E_M_Edwards)
/ April 12, 2012@viciousink
This post is a trap for Westerners. Especially those possessed of a heartfelt “Americanness.” You seem to have jumped right in, shovel in hand.
Living in a “fucking scary place” is relative. While it is true that America can be that, it is for a large number of people less scary than other places. Currently it is most scary for people who are in many ways not Americans. Who often have to deal with American wars and American problems and American hubris despite not actually being Americans themselves. There are better and worse places to be in the world, is the short of it. And every place is unique.
The American Revolution wasn’t nearly as subversive as many Americans like to believe. It was a merchants’ revolution first and foremost, brought about by a wealthy elite who were far enough away from Britain to realize that colonialism was never going to profit them as much as breaking free of the crown.
America has exported its worst vices to the world, and rarely its virtues. Where it has lent a hand, it has done so with a clear eyed view of its interests. It should not be loved unconditionally or with illusions.
This is not to say you can’t enjoy living there, but it is what it is: a country whose global success has come at a huge cost to both itself and the rest of the world. And we can sincerely hope that its most promising characteristic isn’t that it is “batshit, out of our minds crazy.”
You really don’t want a declining atomic superpower with armies in the field across the globe poised, while other nations are both developing and struggling to fee themselves of its influence, to be ‘batshit crazy.’ Or to believe for one privileged moment that this is all made O.K. by chanting “America, fuck yeah!” and counting on the transformative power of hope and empty rhetoric.
America has only the rights it has given itself to pursue its happiness/interests to its bitter ends and it has done so despite mounting evidence that this very pursuit, separate from any serious philosophical qualms which we should have about this, has put the whole planet into a situation from which there will be no recovery.
As for the other claims, I’d almost think this was a spoof or outright trolling if it didn’t fit to a T a common American outlook. Americans have spent a great deal of time doing things “half-assed” both at home and abroad. Foreign policy wise, this is almost as common as going in and just leveling the place with no real plans for what comes after its primary objectives, which start and end with American self-interest, are either achieved or abandoned.
And I know this, or at least enough to support my assertions, because I have lived there. Likely longer than the poster has, I suspect. And outside it as well.
acrackedmoon
/ April 12, 2012You have a lot more patience than I do. *salutes*
the twisted spinster
/ April 12, 2012“Where it has lent a hand, it has done so with a clear eyed view of its interests.”
Actually, I’d argue with this. Loads of us “helping” Americans do so while in a state of complete denial about their own self-interests in the matter. “No, we’re doing this only for you! It’s totally nothing to do with our own need to be both loved and feared, to be the bride at every wedding and the corpse at every funeral, to be number one in the ‘Whose Got The Most Money And Influence’ status game, to be admired for shouldering that White Man’s Burden.” Few Americans are willing to admit that charity isn’t completely altruistic. (And most of those that are are Ayn Rand-worshipping nutballs.) I wish Americans were clear-eyed — about anything.
the twisted spinster
/ April 12, 2012Argh, excuse the typos; that should be “our own self-interest” and “Who’s Got the Most Money.”
acrackedmoon
/ April 13, 2012That is an awesome description.
the twisted spinster
/ April 13, 2012Thanks — :D I can’t take credit for the bride part though; that was first said, apparently, by Theodore Roosevelt’s daughter, about him: “He wants to be the bride at every wedding, the corpse at every funeral, and the baby at every christening.” According to Wikipedia anyway, not the most accurate of sources. But it just fits us, to a tee. Even the baby part.
saajanpatel
/ April 13, 2012@Viciousink:
I think part of the problem here is you are missing the fact that Uganda’s issues with homosexuals is spurred on by a subset of American evangelicals who apparently don’t have a problem with gays being murdered in the night.
This globalization of reactionary religious movements and abuses of corporate power springs from the West, however much there are some of us who fought or still fight it there is a dangerous top-down colonial mindset that has led, in a supposedly post-colonial world, to things like the Asian financial crisis, IMF projects that do more harm than good for the people but benefit a temporary investment from a corporation, and likely hosts of things Moon or others could fill us in on.
It probably is worth examining the imposition of national boundaries and divisiveness utilized by those who oppress by class, but that’s a whole separate discussion. Even there, the gradient of benefit is toward those in the West, though given my own class privilege within America it isn’t for me to speak on this.
Next Friday
/ April 12, 2012I was wondering if it’s possible for you to expand the number of Latest posts on the left? New people comment all over, so it’s a bit hard do follow. I was trying to find again one of your recent long comments on exoticizing and illusion of authenticity and couldn’t…
acrackedmoon
/ April 12, 2012Sure, will do that (if I can). Last few days have been quite an influx of comments, though.
EDIT: done! Expanded from 5 latest comments to 15.
Next Friday
/ April 12, 2012Cool, thanks!
saajanpatel
/ June 5, 2012Voter “fraud” allegations denying citizens right to vote in the US
A huge number of these “initiatives to curtail voter fraud” affect PoCs, focusing on blacks and Latinos.
saajanpatel
/ June 5, 2012Ah, here’s a more recent article talking specifically about the goal of targeting Latinos:
http://feministing.com/2012/05/29/florida-gov-rick-scott-begins-voter-disenfranchisement-tactics-targeting-latinos/
Emil Söderman
/ June 6, 2012While our knowledge as outsiders of US is asymmetric (IE: We likely know much, much, MUCH more about internal US culture, politics, economics, etc. than they do about ours) I’d still note that (even with that) we’re only seeing a part of the picture (of course, no one is seeing the entire picture, that would take some kind of superhuman being)
We’re seeing (mostly) a picture that americans project, and that we (non-americans) send back, but neither of these are neccessarily complete (both groups have agendas, and not neccessarily as simple as one might think) Even without deliberate distortion (which obviously happens) it’s a matter of outsiders not being familiar, and with americans being home-blind.
saajanpatel
/ June 21, 2012While our knowledge as outsiders of US is asymmetric (IE: We likely know much, much, MUCH more about internal US culture, politics, economics, etc. than they do about ours) I’d still note that (even with that) we’re only seeing a part of the picture (of course, no one is seeing the entire picture, that would take some kind of superhuman being)
This is definitely true, most of the problems people have center around mass market culture, military and corporate power. Which ties into the US population, but there are things people miss if this projection is all that is taken into account. I don’t think of corporate identities as synonymous with America.
Born and living in America, I have traveled extensively through it and other parts of the world and come to find there are positive and negative aspects but the power differentials mean a little ignorance can go a long way in harming other nations.
And it’s all well much an Ouroboros. Treatment of African Americans is poosibly better in the US than I’d expect it to be in several other countries given the prejudices I’ve seen from foreigners, but then this also relates back to the racist distortion of the US media outlets.
There is something to be said for the heterogeneous population in the US and the slow triumph of multiculturalism in the West, though again that the West is the intersection point due to immigration is based on Imperialism as well as the secular Enlightenment.
It’s all rather complex.