The subject refers to the idea of white woman’s tears, which sometimes comes into contention due to its gendered nature. But that’s not what I’m here for today, oh no. I’m here to point out that white men too will cry, and cry and cry, and flood the Internet with their tears. Or their jizz, or both, since I’ve come to suspect that many of them jerk each other off as they write the things I will soon link.
You will have heard of the Bakker brouhaha, if you are here. Let’s have a chronology:
- Requires Only That You Hate – R. Scott Bakker: Prince of Misogyny – dated 16 August 2011
- R. Scott Bakker – Sweet Manna - dated 16 August 2011
- R. Scott Bakker - Misanthropology 101 – dated 1 February 2012
- R. Scott Bakker - Requires Only Haidt – dated 6 February 2012
- R. Scott Bakker - The Halftime Show – dated 10 February 2012
- R. Scott Bakker - That Empty Place – dated 16 February 2012
- Peter Watts – In Vicarious Defense of R. Scott Bakker – dated 16 February 2012
- R. Scott Bakker – Um, does anybody got a mint? – dated 18 February 2012
You may be thinking I’ve willfully obscured something. Surely, surely no grown adult man could go on about that one post from August 2011… six months later? Surely not? I must have consistently attacked him! Blogged about him! Many times! Perhaps I may even have personally harassed him! Such is the way of bitchy, angry feminists: we hound offensive men to the end of the earth. So much so that their sales figures suffer and their family goes poor. (For your perusal and pleasure, try this bit of flash fiction by Elodie.)
Alas, no. I made but that one post. Ever after any mention of Bakker on this blog has been peripheral, because I didn’t care about him all that much, and wouldn’t especially want to read his books. But there it is: Bakker stewed over this, apparently, for six entire months. Peter Watts, who is a magical friend of Bakker’s, proceeded to call me “a rabid animal.” Something which even a person who finds me “toxic” recognizes as a loaded term. Not that Peter Watts would admit there’s any problem with him saying that because even if I’d been a fellow nerdy white boy he’d have called me the same, though even after having been told I’m a woman of color it did not stop him from graduating to “foul, rabid animal” which tells you all you need to know. You can go through the rest of that exchange, but I’m more interested in the larger picture of this. Which is: why is it that these people are so deathly afraid of being called sexist, racist, or any such thing… to that froth-at-the-mouth point where they go on to compound the offense by actively being sexist or racist?
R. Scott Bakker would have you believe–
if you actually give a damn about people, then you need to be careful about accusing them of being sexist or racist, because, as a simple matter of fact, you could do real damage and you could be wrong.
“What about me,” Bakker growls. “What about the men, the white men.” Not to be outdone Peter Watts joins in to shriek, “Character assassination!” Jay Lake will be right there crying that he’s been made unwelcome and threatened at WisCon. Let’s set aside for the moment that Bakker, Watts, and Lake have all been genuinely sexist (and for Watts and Lake, racist) to the extent that crying about “false” accusations is a little too late…. it might behoove one to wonder: what real damage could you do? Roman Polanski hasn’t exactly has his life ruined–and that’s for an actual rapist! How about Julian Assange and the rape charges? Has anyone ever seen a white man’s career ruined simply because he’s been accused of sexism or racism… let alone because he has been a sexist, racist fuck? Anyone? Bueller? Orson Scott Card’s and John C. Wright’s books are still selling, aren’t they? Jay Lake is still getting published, isn’t he?
This is a lot of flailing and whining and overreacting to things that can’t, and won’t, affect their careers. It’s classic white men’s tears, and they are all screaming for smelling salts while clutching pearls to their splotchy, wrinkly white bosoms.
Peter Watts started becoming defensive around here after I asked him why he let a comment about “rape card” stand unchallenged. Having evidently read that as an implication that I believe he condones rape (??), he turned testerical (for more on “testeria” and “testerical” please look here):
As for my attitudes (and presumed implicit approval towards) sexual violence (at least, the nonconsensual kind), I’m painfully aware that I can’t speak to what that experience means to anyone who suffers it. [...] I’ve since had a variety of friends and lovers who’ve had various forms of abuse in their past. On a more dispassionate note, I was involved for a while with the manager of the domestic violence lab at UBC, and got a whole whack of horrific data via that avenue. I know that in all likelihood, I’ll never know first-hand what any of that is like, and I don’t pretend to: but before you show the temerity to suggest that I take a light view of sexual abuse, you might want to learn what the fuck you’re talking about first.
By this point our nerdy white boy is no longer half as cool-headed as he’d like to think. Not, again, that anyone ever suggested that he takes a light view of sexual abuse, but isn’t it telling how riled up he becomes at an imaginary suggestion? So much so that he ends up using the fact of having known abuse survivors to bolster his cred. Completely unnecessarily, even, seeing that nobody was suggesting he was taking a light view of anything (except perhaps being an asshole).
It reeks of such deep insecurity. They are so scared of being called sexist, racist, or the like. So much so that they plow right ahead and behave in ways that are indisputably sexist, or racist, or both. They aren’t interested in not being sexist or racist–they’re just angry and anxious when someone calls them out on their -ism, because that’s the worst thing in the world, and appearances of being a good person are far more important than actually being a good person, after all. This is why Bakker stewed for six months. This is why Peter Watts is absolutely losing his shit. This is tears, tears, tears, flooding all the blogs, clogging up all the comment threads, derailing so far off the track we’re back where we started.
Moon, you do not know this blog, so I’ll fill you in: on this blog, at least one person went so far as to express eager anticipation over my imminent ass-raping while in jail. I let that comment stand, even though that person had been banned on pretty much every other forum he stuck their head up at; not because I agreed with him, but because I did not want to play the censor even when I was the one getting shat upon (and I got shat upon a lot, in those days). [...] I err on the side of free speech, however repellent I may find it personally. I called you on “rabid animal” because you’d called me on it, but I didn’t censor your words.
Here’s one of those things neckbeards like to whine about (as Peter Watts himself, of course, has): censorship, denial of free speech. Specifically, said two things as they occur to them. Like how I either delete, edit, or respond with vitriol and ridicule to clueless comments on this blog.
What Watts doesn’t get is that the offensive shit is not actually “personally repellent” to him. It’s easy for straight white men to be gung-ho about freedom of speech and the idea that everyone should have equal chances to air their views: racism, misogyny, homophobia, all the -isms, even sexual threats are not real to them. They are not things that will ever happen to them. This, my friends, is how privilege functions. It shelters you. It protects you in a wonderful little bubble where you need never fear certain things because they don’t affect you, don’t actively and constantly impact your life, your job, your interactions with people, the way you navigate language and culture. Watts’ and Bakker’s posturing–that by allowing all comments on their blogs through they are in some way morally superior–amounts to nothing more than a rich man tearing up banknotes in front of those with less than he. There’s no ethics or moral integrity involved.
Let us sit down and together read this post from s. e. smith at Tiger Beatdown: Curating Safe(r) Spaces In Comments. Sady Doyle’s Professor Feminism and the Deleted Comments of Doom is a fine supplement too, as well as Flavia’s The troll is dead! Foxnewsification and the notion that all points of view are valuable.
Addendum: Through a combination of dropping certain information, Peter Watts has outed an abuse survivor to total strangers on a non-private, non-confidential channel. There is not enough “lord cocks this is so so so repulsive.” What the fuck was he thinking. Oh, that’s right. Railing against an imaginary accusation that he condones rape and using another person to bolster his “I’m not sexist!” cred. Yes, this was done without obtaining express consent.
Oh, just for spice, we have the usual questioning of identity too. Especially this:
Get down off your high horse, ACM is a privileged woman from a privileged background (a Thai Chinese!) who speaks a very good English and is completely steeped in North American culture in a country where only 10% of the population speaks any English at all, who has access to Internet in a country where only a quarter of the population has any kind of connection and apparently has a lot of free time she can spend reading fantasy books and maintaining a constant Internet presence.
According to an ignorant fuckwad from the west, all Chinese-Thai are super-privileged, by which they really mean “those uppity elitist racist Thais won’t grovel before Mighty Whitey!”, a commonly voiced sentiment among the white expat population in Thailand. This ties into and proves my old, old post on this quite neatly, to wit:
It, as well, couples with the idea that the average citizen of a developing nation must live in conditions so dire that a third-worlder who appears on the Internet, let alone appears to blog, must be:
- an imposter
- one of the very elite (because the middle class doesn’t exist and that the Internet is a rare and precious luxury across all developing countries)
- an outsider looking in and/or honorary westerner (real third-worlders don’t speak English so well!)
[...]What this boils down to is an Oppression Olympics where the privileged party, in this case the first-world Social Justice Warrior, always wins. Do you not languish in your own excrement? Then you are not worth listening to, because you aren’t one of the real oppressed. Do you languish in your own excrement, haven’t the opportunity to speak about your experiences (except through privilege-filtered documentaries run by westerners), can’t speak English well? Very good! You’re a proper victim. Whom a first-world audience doesn’t have to hear, doesn’t have to listen to because you don’t have a voice–and speak a language–they can understand. Ideally, of course, these Minority Warriors may have done volunteer work in a developing nation, but you and I know perfectly well they are little more than armchair activists whose greatest goal in social justice-related messages is to thump their chests and impress the Internet at large with the blazing light of their progressiveness. They drown out the voices of minorities with obnoxious faux-outrage while revoking the minorities’ right to speak, based on arbitrary, nonsensical standards set by themselves and other Warriors.
A well-known and popular tactic, documented by Derailing for Dummies.
Except in this case the other party doesn’t even pretend to be about social justice in any way (though they certainly do claim to be oppressed as white men!): they are just shitstains, assured and secure in the idea that they and they alone are the greatest judge of authenticity. They know all about how a Thai woman would be like, oh yes, and what she should talk about, how she would behave. The fact that my blog isn’t one-half a “Minority Nanny’s Guide to Southeast Asian Socio-Political Climate” is, evidently, proof that I am inauthentic. It rides on the expectations that, as a person from a developing nation, I have the obligation to teach them about my culture, my country, and what being in this country is like–they want a view in from the outside: in short, they expect me to blog like a white expat living here, or possibly a travelogue written by a western backpacker who spent one week here, focusing on all the exotic details, all the weird customs. They want things that would confirm all the stuff written by John Burdett and Stephen Leather. They want a thrill, not someone castigating them for their white privilege. Which is apparently not important in my part of the world, you know. Why, I should be talking about–I don’t know–hookers, temples, and Buddhism perhaps? “Class, gender, ethnicity and religion” being more important than anything, because if there’s anyone who knows best how a Thai woman ought to prioritize issues, it’s a sheltered, straight white boy from the west. I should also, incidentally, educate them nicely and hold their hands through an exciting adventure in exoticism.
It’s nice and colonialist and, of course, quite racist–the assumption that they, white westerners, know more about me (or indeed my country) than I do. Hence people like Pat insisting I must never have set foot in Thailand, and must be some white nerdy dude and… eh, after a point it’s hard to make out the gibberish, really. They don’t speak Human, you know? It must be all that privilege softening them up to the point where they decided they no longer required the brain, had it removed, and spent all their time gazing lovingly into a jar of curlies.
M Caliban
/ February 19, 2012Whenever a dude asks for ‘evidence’ that you’re a woman, he’s trying to get a photo out of you so he can talk about how ugly you are. That way, everything about you can be related to ugliness.
Are you angry? It’s because you can’t get laid.
Are you gay? It’s because you’re so ugly no man would want you.
Do you complain about rape? Don’t worry, no one would rape someone as ugly as you.
acrackedmoon
/ February 19, 2012Tsk, they already do that without having seen a photo of me. You overestimate them.
Chance
/ February 19, 2012You can see the backpedaling as he goes: he didn’t actually base it on anyone, there are no telltale biographic details, and on and on.
Brilliant. I love how in the midst of that he completely outs her by mentioning [certain things].
MOD EDIT: I’ve removed a few things here to obfuscate details about the person. Sorry! Not your fault.
acrackedmoon
/ February 19, 2012And he continues to… not understand at all why that’s really gross to do. Ugh.
Claire De Trafford
/ February 19, 2012Hello. I came to know of your blog through the Peter Watts comment (can’t remember where I came across that) and I thought I’d check it out. So far all I’ve seen are pretty reasonable comments. I got a copy of Bakker’s first book, whatever it was called, years ago through a book club offer and it sat on my shelf due to the stupid names referenced on the back cover, then I read a few pages and thought it was a large pile of boring male tosh. I’m quite happy for his sales to suffer if he can’t be bothered to write decent female characters – serves him right. Anyway I’m enjoying your blog and thank you for your insights.
Sean Wills (@seanwillsalt)
/ February 19, 2012I particularly enjoyed it when one of them claimed that you’re not Thai because you don’t talk about language. Do you think maybe he hasn’t read your blog?
You get a lot of this in any online writing community. In the YA world in particular, there’s been a ton of hand-wringing about representation and how we have a few too many books filled with exclusively white characters . Unfortunately, you tend to get people reacting to this by falling into every single ‘clueless white person writes [non-white character]‘ trap imaginable. These people really, really believe that the mere act of trying to write a non-white character completely shields them from accusations of racism. Anyone who then accuses them of racism must just be overreacting/a troll/actually some white dude trying to stir up shit.
I suspect this is why Bakker and friends are getting so worked up over this. They thought about sexism while they were writing, okay? Look, they even included female characters! They didn’t need to do that, you know. They could have been like those other writers, the ones who write unapologetic sausage fests. *cue hyperventilating fit*
The idea that any effort at representation is ‘good enough’, that you just can’t expect anything more from people, is of course classic privilege at work. I’m honestly not sure how you get people to let go of it. (In the meantime, though, whipping them into a frenzy with entertaining blog posts seems like an excellent tactic!)
Seth J Dickinson (@sethjdickinson)
/ February 19, 2012I wish that comments threads re: you/Requires Only Hate would be curated as safe spaces. I’m empathic towards Watts in some respects even as I think you continue to make great points, but I can’t stand the sheer lunacy on display there.
If they want to criticize you, they should do it on grounds of content, not resort to credential-checking and borderline rape threats. Authors running these comments threads should enforce those standards.
acrackedmoon
/ February 19, 2012I don’t think Watts et al understand safe spaces, what they are, why they are required, and so forth. The flag of free speech must be hoisted high, or else. It’s quite the luxury, to be able to prize “freedom of speech” (and what a misused concept that has become!) above all else.
Btw, I understand you thought my tweet about him not obtaining consent from an abuse survivor was “disappointing”? In light of everything he’s been doing regarding that matter–blithely outing her, and all–I can’t say I feel apologetic about it. Sure, he may know her very well, and perhaps she’s okay with being outed, but it pings me very badly that he’d discuss certain things so publicly. He didn’t seem to think it through at all.
Seth J Dickinson (@sethjdickinson)
/ February 19, 2012And I suspect my own comments regarding Nalo Hopkinson (she helped workshop the early chapters of at least one of Watts’ novels) qualifies as the same kind of person-as-credential error you’ve been warning against, right?
I guess that in this case Hopkinson would’ve been able to provide input and engage in dialogue, so perhaps it’s not exactly the same thing. Nonetheless, I should probably be wary of using her as a totem (if you’ll forgive the colonialist overtones to the word).
acrackedmoon
/ February 19, 2012I don’t disbelieve that Hopkinson helped workshop his stuff, or that she offered advice–even stern advice–about it, but I don’t think it’s okay to use a person as a kind of political amulet. It’s nowhere like Jay Lake citing his adopted Asian daughter as evidence that he can’t be racist, because Hopkinson is an adult person and can speak for herself.
Ultimately actions speak loudest and what you say/do should stand on its own: this is why “my wife says I’m not a misogynist” doesn’t work great if you are saying misogynistic things. It assumes a certain level of hivemindedness among the marginalized. Yes, Caitlin Sweet thinks Bakker is a fantastic person, but that doesn’t mean other women can’t disagree with her or that because she’s a woman, her judgment of his character automatically invalidates everyone else’s. Which Watts appears to think is the case.
Seth J Dickinson (@sethjdickinson)
/ February 19, 2012I’m an idiot and can’t figure out how to reply to your replies. :(
I’m — paralyzed, here. I don’t want you to feel apologetic. I can see why Watts gets really angry about something so personal. At the same time, I agree with you about the general principles of outing and public discussion of abuse, and I think you’re right to say that this kind of disclosure needs to be thought through carefully.
Even if I’m disappointed, that doesn’t mean you should give a shit about what I think; I’m a white straight dude, insulated by privilege, and I’m in need of your perspective much more than you’re in need of mine. Part of what makes you so valuable (and I don’t mean to commodify!) is that you come from a really, really different angle than Watts, or Bakker, or my own head. I wouldn’t have even considered your angle on the Starfish dedication without you bringing it up.
I feel incredibly presumptuous even talking about this, though. This is probably a personal, painful matter for Watts, a personal and deeply painful matter for Watts’ former partner, and a matter you’ve put way more thought into than I have.
I’m on board with you re: Hopkinson, talismans, and heterogeneity within the marginalized, nothing to add.
Chance
/ February 19, 2012At the same time, I agree with you about the general principles of outing and public discussion of abuse, and I think you’re right to say that this kind of disclosure needs to be thought through carefully.
Actually what it needs is authorization from the person whose personal information is being disclosed. It doesn’t matter how much Watts thinks about it – the person whose private information is being splashed on the internet should have absolute veto power. And in the absence of consent (which he clearly doesn’t have since he’s only heard that she’s flattered the book was dedicated to her) he should just shut up.
(Not the same at all, but I won’t ever forget the time a guy decided that everyone in my office should know my dad had cancer. No, they didn’t to need to know and he made a hard situation worse by violating my right to privacy.)
acrackedmoon
/ February 20, 2012It’s entirely possible that he has her consent today, but when he wrote the dedication and the novel itself, he couldn’t possibly have–seeing that he thought she was dead at the time–and I don’t think these things are, y’know, retroactive. As for his present sharing of details, again he may have her explicit authorization on that, though I can’t imagine how that conversation happened. “Hey, could I maybe mention you were victimized by your stepfather and tried to commit suicide in a public forums viewable by thousands? And give them your real name too? I need to win an argument on the Internets!” Yeah uhm.
Privacy is such a huge thing. I reveal my orientation, ethnicity and gender here because I write about the things I do, but there’ve been contexts in which I conceal all three and let people think I’m a straight white dude from the UK if that’s what they assume (for ex, when gaming). Because that’s not a place where being known as a woman will do you any good, or make your experience more enjoyable, or make you feel safer. Quite the opposite.
Traumatic events and abuse are just that much more sensitive, and could make you so bloody vulnerable. People react to it differently, sure, and I don’t want to go “SHE MUST HATE HIM NOW BECAUSE” because of course I don’t know the abuse survivor in question… but it just leaves a bad taste in the mouth to see this sort of disclosure.
trevoresque
/ February 20, 2012Interesting you mention being seen as male in gaming.
In my teenage years I didn’t take feminism seriously at all. I cringed at the word. That changed when I started roleplaying visibly female characters online. (These were the pre-voice days.) Naive as I was, I didn’t expect how differently I’d be treated.
As the queerphobics in the schoolyard told me, I didn’t quite get concepts like “masculine” and “feminine”, so I didn’t expect there’d be much difference between roleplaying men and women. It was the 1990s and sexism had been solved forever, right? I still remember my very first time logging onto the server and getting… a marriage proposal? Huh? And who is this guy following me around and throwing potions at my feet?
Being an egomaniac and happy to flirt with boys, my initial reaction was amusement. (Plus, I was still in the closet, and this seemed a safe way to explore.) But over time the shit from boys (both randoms and “friends”) wore me down and I got really irritable. It was exhausting and fun-killing. That was when I started listening more closely to people’s experiences offline. It was actually on a queer blog that I stumbled across “privilege” as a concept.
Being visibly male is like a kind of armour. I never got that before.
shardbaenre
/ February 19, 2012This whole brouhaha, I think, is over personal narrative, which is what I’m getting from your post. Everyone crafts these narratives: I’m a good/smart/savvy/forgiving/patient/etc. person. And this things are bolstered by the environment you live in and the challenges that those environments produce. It serves as an armor. Sorta like in The Simpsons, when Milhouse says: “My mom thinks I’m cool”. And those narratives can be destructive or they can be a creative force in your life. It just depends on how you deal with the situation when someone directly challenges the narrative of your life that you have crafted.
I find that the most insidious narrative is the one that tells you that you’re special. Don’t get me wrong, I totally believe I’m special. That, in lots of things, I’ve tried my very best to have earned the things I have. I think, for the most part, people do earn it. And I have no problem with other people believing it about themselves. Until the very moment they pull something like this.
See, you attacked the narrative that said these jizz stains were special and that they had insight. You attacked a core tenant of who they thought they were because if they aren’t that, then what are they? I tell you what they aren’t. They aren’t special and that is deathly important. These people refuse to try to reforge the narrative until it’s true, by acknowledging the work was problematic or by apologizing or doing better next time or, hell, even just listening. It is due to that deep insecurity that they have failed at being human so they can’t possibly acknowledge that. It’s easier to attack you or someone else.
It’s like these privileged people just think we toss out -isms for shits and giggles. Yeah, douchewaggle, we know how serious accusing you or your view point of being an -ism, but we for damned sure know how serious the consequences are if we don’t point this out to you and anyone else. And it’s just a means of staying special. It’s like they are saying “If I can’t be special in this other way, then I will be a victim! A special victim because victims have all the lucky breaks! They get sympathy! They get people to pay attention to them! And if I’m a victim, then I can’t possibly be an oppressor!” I feel like you can literally track the very moment where they decide to be a victim.
First, it’s anger and then calling for your credentials. And, by the way, confirmation of a credential is just another way for some skid mark to say you are just playing the “x” card and then saying that someone of your particular credentials agrees with them. Which, let’s unpack that shit. By saying that, you are basically saying that having this particular credential means that everyone with this credential has to agree or the person being contrary is the outlier. Let’s forget how that, in and of itself, it expresses whatever -ism is associated with it and recall that the one confirming the skid mark is, in my experience, the outlier.
But really, more than anything, reputation is just a reflection of the personal narrative and you’ve torn it to shreds. Bakker and his spiritual jizz stain kin absolutely cannot handle that and they can’t go about fixing it because then they’d have to realize that they probably aren’t good people.
acrackedmoon
/ February 20, 2012That’s the basic dissonance, I think; they believe they are decent people, but they don’t want to do anything to be decent. Being seen as decent is more important, so anything that challenges or questions that cramps their style.
I know, it’s like they think we find it fun to do this or something. Yes, it’s satisfying and cathartic to do angry rageposts, but being confronted with -isms by itself is anything but a grand entertainment all ’round.
Done! Caitlin Sweet is already cited as evidence because she’s a woman speaking in Bakker’s favor, and I wonder if that’s what the “rape card” comment was about.
shardbaenre
/ February 20, 2012Ha, yeah it would seem so, re: Caitlin Sweet. It is truly and profoundly weird for me. Especially when someone will say, after all the bullshit, “Well, why didn’t you educate them and lead them down the path of righteousness and understanding?” To which I now have two replies:
1) Asshole, what the fuck do you think that previous post/comment/note/reply was? Me pissing into the wind?
2) Why the fuck am I supposed to teach you how to be a good person? I am not your preacher or your teacher or your goddamn Magical Negro. And I am most certainly not your sassy minority girl friend. Educate your own damn self if you want to be an actual human.
Two guesses as to how that turns out and one of them doesn’t count.
Liz (@hawkwing_lb)
/ February 20, 2012You know, I’d mostly thought Peter Watts was reasonable, heretofore. I do so love to lose respect for people whose books I didn’t hate.
(His comments have always been a swamp. But hell.)
acrackedmoon
/ February 20, 2012I’d say I could see where he was coming from, or say that he was at some point reasonable, but no. The whole post of his hinged on “she attacked my friend Bakker, and this shall not stand.” I can understand Bakker reacting as he has–and Bakker’s reactions have been relatively tame now there’s someone to compare him to–but Watts riding in on his white horse and shiny armor as though Bakker requires protection… why do people even do that.
Liz (@hawkwing_lb)
/ February 20, 2012@acrackedmoon:
My brief impression of Watts’ writing in the past was that he could be construed as reasonable. Not today, not anymore. Seriously? “You insulted my friend, therefore I will call you a foul rabid animal?”
That’s fucking… I dunno. There’s plenty of insults that don’t have the dehumanising history of “rabid” and “animal”! Asshat, shitstain, wanker, fuckwit, y’know, the list is pretty endless. I shouldn’t boggle that he thinks this is okay? But I do, still, boggle that people think this is okay.
I get the impulse to defend one’s friends. But there’s a line between being a supportive friend and saying, “Mate, you can’t make everyone happy,” and encouraging someone to wallow in self-pity in public.
(Dear R. Scott Bakker: feminism is not about you. Feminism is, in fact, about it being *not about you*.)
acrackedmoon
/ February 20, 2012I’ve been told his fiction is fairly reasonable? I don’t know, never having read it.
To be fair, I called Bakker “self-important little roach” and “shit-eater,” so he felt it appropriate to respond with “the Dude” and Watts with “rabid animal.” Except neither of my insults has the loaded history of “rabid animal” or the power imbalance associated with it all (nor do my insults question Bakker’s gender identity!). I tried to explain this to Watts. He didn’t get it, or didn’t want to. Bakker seems bent on making feminism all about him. Or at least bent on making sure everyone knows his understanding and definition of feminism may not be matched by anyone’s.
g2-22745856cc8b56416cc6c344655eb99f
/ February 20, 2012You might try a short story of his called The Things, which is a retelling of the Thing story by John Carpenter from the alien’s point of view. It’s really good until the last line, which is really horrible.
acrackedmoon
/ February 20, 2012…………………………………………
I only read the last two lines.
All I have to say is: …………………………………
kalbear
/ February 21, 2012That is the only mention of it throughout the story. Like I said, I thought the story was great until the last line.
kalbear
/ February 21, 2012Also, apologies;I should have stated trigger warning.
trevoresque
/ February 20, 2012The only Peter Watts book I’ve read is Blindsight. It approaches “first contact” with a possible alien lifeform much like “2001: A Space Odyssey” approaches the monoliths–the alien is truly alien. Watts’ biology background is a selling point here.
Strangely, I was mostly interested in the depiction of vampires, which was given a pretty fun “science” explanation. Ancient long-lost cousins of humanity who died out when architecture started using right angles, i.e. anything forming a cross shape, because hyper-predator vampire minds overthink geometry and overload seizure-like. They are resurrected/cloned/whatever in the future to help with space exploration because they have minds like computers and are long-lived and don’t have problems with hibernating on long space journeys. I wanted VAMPIRES IN SPACE!!! to be the point of the book.
My problem with Blindsight, though, is my problem with much scifi. Lots of really neat ideas but the rest didn’t quite grab me.
But Watts’ response (and the show he’s curated) disappoint me. When it comes to queer issues, I’m used to these reactions from social conservatives, but Watts and Bakker seem to identify as social progressives. It is uncomfortably eye-opening. It makes me want to examine my own bullshit knowing how much I have in common with both these dudes.
acrackedmoon
/ February 21, 2012It’s the progressives, IMO, with the worst blind spots–and the ones most likely to froth at the mouth when they are challenged or questioned in any way that might “destroy” their reputation as perfect liberal saints. They are the most insidious and poisonous: call an Aryan Nations member a racist and they probably wouldn’t even give a shit. Call Peter Watts racist and… well, you saw what happened.
I’ve heard good things about Blindsight. I was never interested enough to actually read it to start with, though.
Seth J Dickinson (@sethjdickinson)
/ February 20, 2012“I’ve been told his fiction is fairly reasonable? I don’t know, never having read it.”
I loved Blindsight and think it’d be fairly clean from your perspective, but you’d probably grow increasingly displeased with Starfish/Maelstrom/Behemoth; they do some things right but also get rapier as they go.
I’d be interested in your reactions but I understand you’ve probably got a whole pile of stuff to review.
Captain Falcon (@psychoxnino)
/ February 20, 2012I’m pretty sure “the Dude” is a reference to “The Big Lebowski,” but for the life of me I can’t figure out the punchline, unless you like to sip White Russians and hang out at bowling alleys.
As for the rest, I openly admit that I have friends who are racist. They’re still my friends, I’d take a bullet for most of them, but I don’t agree with everything they say, and when they say something that is racist, then it’s still racist. I’ve got some Chinese friends from the mainland who used to throw around anti-Japanese jokes like it was nothing. They also threw around anti-Tibetan and anti-Taiwanese jokes. We used to get into fights over it. We’re still friends, but that’s got a lot to do with the fact that they don’t ever act on their beliefs; they just talk.
My point is that my friends aren’t horrible people, and they’re not total bigots who advocate genocide or anything. They just have prejudiced beliefs that come out in ways that they think is harmless. They think it’s just humor, who’s going to get hurt by a joke anyway, and they don’t stop to think about why it’s funny to them. But if someone from Tibet heard them making jokes about Tibetans and got offended and called them racist, that person is not wrong to say it, and I am in no position to correct that person. I’d defend a friend from a physical assault, but verbal or written objections, even one take comes from anger, is something that I’d discuss only in private.
Watts may not have read Bakker’s work, and neither have I, but I believe your post on Bakker included a quoted segment from an interview in which Bakker tries to explain his views. So that is something that could be used by people to judge his character (as opposed to his work). He may have misrepresented himself, but the public doesn’t have anything else to go on except what he offers them. And what he’s offered us is kind of sketchy. There’s more defensiveness than clarity.
Zach Rosenberg
/ February 20, 2012My apologies for ignorance. as I haven’t followed the case much, but is Julian Assange actually guilty? I’ve heard conflicting things about the case by and large. Polanski, definitely, as he’s actually admitted to it.
acrackedmoon
/ February 20, 2012I understand the charge was dropped, but I’m disinclined to think it was a false charge mainly because it’s really fucking horrible to out yourself as a survivor of rape, especially so publicly. The way Assange dealt with it all also pinged me off, to such an extent that to call him “an alleged rapist” would be uncomfortable to me in the sense that it’d contribute to rape apologia/rape culture, as well as the way the charge was questioned. To say a woman “alleges rape” is so very, very loaded and I want nothing to do with that sort of suggestion, thus erring on the side of caution. There must be some way to say “he was charged with rape but whether the charge was true has not been proved” that doesn’t contribute to rape culture, but I don’t know what it is. Regardless, his life certainly has not been ruined; the lives of the women who brought forward the charge, however…
Next Friday
/ February 21, 2012They had a House Bill introduced last year in my state as to change the term “victim” to the term “accuser” in criminal cases involving stalking, rape, and domestic abuse. When confronted, the State Rep started backpedalling like there was no tomorrow, advocating capital punishment for child molesters and rapists and stating that he meant to change the languages in all the laws. Considering that his other bill was about capital punishment for women who miscarried…
mf72
/ February 27, 2012I follow your blog regularly and often find myself intellectually stimulated, and thought-provoked on a regular basis. However, and I can certainly understand why, I find you to sometimes be unable to see any other views than your own. All men aren’t rabid female-hating misogynists you know, even though we are a bit thick-witted sometimes ;).
Now, I’m a straight white male, trying to live as decently as I can. I find myself eqally horrified by crimes commited against both women, children and men whether or not the culprit is male or female.
In this particular case – Assange – I’m leaning toward guilty.
However, I’ve a friend who were accused of raping his ex-girlfriend. During the course of the investigation it turned out that she was lying about the assault in order to get sole custody of their children.
Rape is a horrible, abhorrant thing, and my mate lost quite a few friends and even his job because of this and was utterly devastated due to these allegations.
I’m all for harsher punishments for sex crimes, trafficking, spousal and child abuse (and also animal abuse for that matter).
But, wilfully ignoring the fact that falsely accusation of rape exist (albeit rarely) acts counter-productive and does nothing good for the vast majority of women who cruelly every single day gets abused and victimised.
This is naturally a very loaded subject but one I feel must be discussed openly and with an open mind.
acrackedmoon
/ February 27, 2012Cool story, bro.
Yes, I’m aware that false rape accusation happens. I’m also aware that the figure is microscopically tiny. You know why? Because the things that are filed as “unfounded” allegations include occasions when some dick decides the woman “didn’t fight off the rapist hard enough,” or because there was no weapon involved, or because rape culture exists. And you know what else? Most women don’t want to be known as someone who’s been raped. Being a rape survivor is not fun. People generally don’t go around pretending they are survivors for shits and giggles. It ruins your life; it stigmatizes you, especially if it’s public knowledge (in your town, or in your social circles, or whatever). The rape survivor will face a far, far, far harder time than a rapist suspect. If your mate lost his job and lost a few friends, imagine what it’s like for a woman who’s stepped forward and filed rape charges. Look at the women in Assange’s case. Look at Samantha Geimer. Does it look like she went through happy fun times? And that’s when the charge is beyond doubt not false. It’s far, far more hellish than anything a “falsely charged” rape suspect will ever have to go through, because society at large doesn’t really give a shit that a man may have raped a woman or Roman Polanski would have been beaten to death a long time ago.
And that’s, sorry to say, hinging on the idea that in your friend’s case the charge was false… and I prefer to hear the woman’s side first before nodding along, I’m afraid.
Finally, a woman has like a gazillion more reasons to fear rape than a man has to fear “false rape” accusations. Perspective.
Liz (@hawkwing_lb)
/ February 20, 2012@acrackedmoon:
(Sorry, I can’t figure out how to reply in thread.)
I rather enjoyed Blindsight, as a well-constructed, completely depressing SF novel.
Rizz Rustbolt (@RizzRustbolt)
/ February 20, 2012So he surrounds himself with abuse survivors and seems to exclusively date them as well? Does anyone else find this revelation extraordinarily creepy?
saajanpatel
/ February 21, 2012To be fair, the numbers of survivors of sexual assault is likely way underestimated.
I’ve been startled to find out many people in my circles, men and women, have been sexually assaulted. You don’t have to seek them out.
acrackedmoon
/ February 21, 2012I think he’s worked at a domestic violence center or something, and I don’t know about exclusively dating. But you’d think he would know better than to pull up that sort of thing as a defense.
Athena Andreadis
/ February 21, 2012I wrote the following passage in an essay nearly two years ago, and it’s still tragically relevant in connection with self-labeled “progressive” communities (SF/F, space exploration enthusiasts, transhumorists…):
“…what we have here are people so embedded in their privilege that pointing it out to them instantly strips away the progressive veneer and elicits poop-flinging that would make a baboon blush. Women and other Others are still furniture – and though furniture is useful and can be decorative, it’s not supposed to move, dammit!”
It is well known that Peter Watts had a run-in with US customs. The avalanche of support he received had a not-so hidden subtext of “When a white Anglo man is harassed like this, it shows you how bad things have got!” — because harassment of non-white non-males is of course to be expected and borne with equanimity. It’s a pity that even this direct experience of humiliation does not seem to have increased his empathy one whit. “My wife/partner/mistress is a feminist and she agrees with me!” would be funny if it weren’t infuriating.
While we are on the topic of Mr. Watts’ fictions: I read bits and pieces of the Rifter trilogy (they were interesting biologically but I found the relentless grimdark tiresome); I also read The Things and consider it to be the sanctioned fanfic it is: it is about three times the length it needs to be and the aliens don’t sound non-human at all. If it had come from an obscure author, I doubt very much it would have appeared in Clarkesworld.
acrackedmoon
/ February 22, 2012I will bet you anything that if Watts had been a man of color or a woman or a WOC there wouldn’t have been such blistering outrage at the treatment he got.
YES. Yes so much. At least out-and-out conservatives/bigots don’t give a shit if you call them bigots, but do that to a liberal and out come the true colors.
That seems to be everyone’s conclusion about it. That it got nominated for awards is… uhm.
Zach Rosenberg
/ February 21, 2012I understand exactly what you’re saying. I’ve seen rape cases in court and I know how godawful it is for the victims to be put on the stand and be torn apart throughout it, and have to revisit it, as well as the insanely low conviction rate. What makes me hesitate is I have seen a small minority of cases actually proven false (And I don’t mean to contribute to that abhorrent myth of evil women just looking for a poor man to charge with rape). I definitely think Assange is unbelievably arrogant and could give two fucks about most other people. Smearing the accuser was utterly beyond the pale, but I’m a bit leery of calling even a guy like Assange a rapist on the scant evidence we have of the case. Polanski can simply rot in hell.
acrackedmoon
/ February 21, 2012Fair enough, I’ve removed the Assange reference. He’s still such a handy-dandy example though, I really should find a way to rework him in. “Charged with rape”?
Silvia Moreno-Garcia (@silviamg)
/ February 21, 2012Eh. I await the day when I’m famous enough to publish my Spock/Kirk fanfic in a pro spec mag.
Zach Rosenberg
/ February 21, 2012I think referencing the charge is definitely a good idea. It’s telling how many leaped to smear Anna Ardin on really idiotic grounds. Polanski is definitely the greatest example though. The defense people bring up to the man because he makes good movies never ceases to make me ill. You’re definitely right that Ardin was bashed all around and somehow Polanski is still a respect member of the film community (I’m sorry, I can’t get over this. Neil Gaiman, Jamie Lee Curtis, Chris Rock and some others were thankfully voices of sanity on the subject).
One example might be Jerry Sandusky who still have defenders, whereas the kids he raped? One of them was ostracized in his home town because ‘Joe couldn’t coach the football team any more.’
Lanius Excubitor
/ February 21, 2012This little Bird has spied a certain uniformity and staleness of discussion.
I will therefore repost an intriguing hoax from the Squid forum.
@acrackedmoon (and those who think like her)
Allow an old man to share his wisdom.
You are dross. You are less than that, even. You are not even wrong.
Your kind will not see the end of this century.
I spent six years as an intelligence officer breaking down people whose shoes I would not allow you to shine.
Just before the war ended, I found it advantageous to become an American. I killed a man who looked a bit like me and assumed his identity.
I spent years searching for a mate. I finally found her, on the third try. A woman, who, after I raped her on our third date and cut her face with my dagger kissed me passionately, cut me in return and then licked off the blood.
In the wilderness of Montana, where we lived far from the degenerate and hopeless civilization, she bore me five able sons and three daughters. Each of my sons have killed more people than you’ve slept with, and each brought back a woman like their mother.
Together, we have crafted a new society here. A society of perfect survivors, free from lies, sin and self-deception.
A society free from guilt, a society where ends justify the means and nothing is sacred.
Pain purifies people, and we know how to take it and give it.
Regards
Major Thomas Naue (USMC retired, Standartenführer, Waffen-SS)
P.S.
Of course, we masquerade as just another bunch of semiliterate biblical gun-toting yokels. It has it’s advantages, and we find it very humorous.
To those wondering, the Lovers are flawed versions of me and my wife. I corresponded with China, though he would not admit that even under torture.
There are so many flavors of humanity. The problem of internet is, that likeminded people search out likeminded people.
So, in an effort to fertilize this stagnant pool.. I give you Thomas Naue.
Whoever wrote that sick joke of a post gets my admiration. For sheer outrageousness of it.
I mean.. hate is one thing, but this is raw, naked power!
Wow.
siedhr
/ February 21, 2012Wow indeed. Brilliant. Allow me to translate.
Roar.
Roar roar.
Roar roar roar.
RAAAAAAAAAAARWAAAAAARWARRARARRRRRAAAAAAARW. ARGARAGAWRARGRAWHHRAWRARAAAAWROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOARRAWR.
Rawwwr rape rawwr blood rawwr. SOULMATES.
Humblebrag.
Judgementalbrag.
Humblebrag again.
Nugget of wisdom.
TRUTH.
Impressive signature.
Wittiness and humblebrag.
<3 LOVE <3.
Insightful observation.
Sycophantic rawr.
RAWR
I’m impressed. “stands up and claps”
And lest we forget, once more: RAAAAAAAAAWR
Gourmet Neurovore
/ February 21, 2012Ah, Lanius. Shall we list a few of your selected posts from that comments thread?
I don’t take anyone who accuses anyone of either racism, sexism or misogyny seriously.
I mean.. remember racefail in SF? Where some black drama queens raised enormous amounts of drama on LJ?
Christ… talk about people who don’t have enough problems of their own and need to butt into someone elses stuff and be all self-righteous…
***
I mean.. take James Watson. Dude makes an innocent observation on race and intelligence, and half of the world acts as if he donned an SS uniform and burned a church full of Jews and Gypsies.
No one really asks whether there is any evidence that breeds of men that are obviously adapted to different enviroments cannot differ in intellectual capabilities.
Far easier to survive in today’s welfare slums than it was for our ancestors to survive in the wild, with nothing but stone tools, hide clothing, fire and stuff like that.
Wotan…. I’d really hate not living in a technological civilization, and not just because of the absence of net fmg porn, guns, booze, and stuff like that…
***
Things that exist are not necessarily relevant. Like NASCAR.
Or Disney movies. Or Apple users. Or people who think Dan Brown’s novels are not utter crap.
Why should I care that some wide-eyed hippy centrist who has never shot, killed and gutted a wild animal gets his panties in a wad about?
People like that are sad cases who delude themselves about their own nature, the nature of human race, and mostly about everything.
They’re pathetic. Still, they are human animals like me, and while I tolerate them, I will not stoop to posturing to calm them down.
I pride in that I constantly try to examine why I believe X. Intellectual honesty is the key to enlightenment!
There is no thought or emotion of mine that doesn’ deserve to be slowly impaled on the burning stake of merciless self-examination!
Clearly, the diversity of opinion this blog needs.
acrackedmoon
/ February 21, 2012Oh, I knew who he was; I semi-engaged him on Watts’ blog after all. He seems a bit adolescent really, throwing out “edgy” comments and… actually, at one point even Watts deleted his comment.
siedhr
/ February 21, 2012So on a more serious note, guys, there’s more talk here about the lady in question than there is on Peter Watts’ blog. I don’t doubt anyone’s good intentions and such, but there is too much information and speculation here about a real person. Don’t use her to attack him.
saajanpatel
/ February 22, 2012Good point. Come to think of it, it may be best to delete all links and information that can be used as a way to trace this person’s name?
acrackedmoon
/ February 22, 2012I have removed most of the info. Watts hasn’t completely redacted his, though. :/
saajanpatel
/ February 22, 2012Yeah, I just mentioned it to him over there as well.
Lanius Excubitor
/ February 21, 2012“First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, and then you win.”
I have certain issues with this blog. Hate.
I do not hate nazis, though I love to kill them by any and all means. Sadly just online, in this very realistic tactical shooter(Red Orchestra 2).
What is your opinion on issuing hunting tickets on human beings?
Just scum: ambulance chasers, skinheads, celerities and so on. Just limited duration, say 3 day.
This birdie think it is swell. Too many self-important little twerps these days with too high profiles!
Next Friday
/ February 22, 2012It’s pretty remarkable that comments detailing the search for your identity were accepted as the ones making legitimate points. Nice guys!
acrackedmoon
/ February 22, 2012Priorities. :)
Brendan Moody (@BrendanNMoody)
/ February 22, 2012Not much of substance to say here; I just wanted to thank you for provoking this ongoing white dude meltdown. As a white dude and a fanboy type myself, I was blissfully ignorant of so many of these issues, and dismissive of those I had to acknowledge, until seeing the recent epic cluelessness made me face the consequences of having an intellectual system where “social justice proponent who makes me uncomfortable” and “social justice proponent who is SO OBVIOUSLY CRAZY I MUST COMPLETELY IGNORE THEM” are completely overlapping groups. I can only continue to boggle at the difficulty these guys have in admitting even the possibility of error or offense.
acrackedmoon
/ February 22, 2012You’re welcome!
On twitter some of us have come up with a shorthand for it: “fauxgressive testerical males.” That is to say, men who believe they are progressive liberals but who will break into hives and throw fits should anyone so much as suggest they may have done or said something sexist/racist/homophobic/etc, because they’re more interested in erasing a conflict against their personal narrative (“I am pro-feminist, enlightened, and do not see race” for example) than working to make sure their personal narrative matches up with what they actually say and do.
I don’t actually believe I’m doing political activism here, but I daresay exposing people’s true colors does serve some purpose.
creepyhomeless
/ February 22, 2012“Dear oppressed minorities,
This isn’t about you or your pain, anger, resentment, powerlesness… it’s about the bigot and how saaaad it is for him to be called a bigot. Bigots are people too. Uppity minorities like you make their lifes hard.
Sincerely,
-A cis, able-bodied, straight, white man who is Totally Not A Bigot”
Zinnia Jones calls this phenomenon the “minority burden”. Ve has put if more coherently than I ever will: youtube. com/watch?v=p68-k_fiiaQ
This is oppression at work. How dare we speak up and call people out every time they shit on our faces – it could make them feel bad! Reminds me of that guy who cried you were oppressing him when you explained him that, yes, “republicunts” is a pretty fucking offenssive term.
I can’t boast I have -ist friends. Life is too short and my sanity is valuable.
Bakker is seriously obsessed with “Girls Are Pink Boys Are Blue”, isn’t he? Most gender difference preachers screech “I am not sexist, how dare you!!!” in every other sentence, but tend to take anyone questioning their raging misogyny- I mean, erm… opinions very personally. Science has debunked all of the differentialism myths, one by one, during this very decade.* Take a wild guess what pointing that out leads to.
I used to concern troll MRA boards. If you push the right hot buttons, there is infighting that puts fandom shipping wars to shame. Such frail creatures.
* If I had a fiver every time I’ve had an argument about this with someone insecure about being male, I would be rich now. But nobody gave me the fivers, so I don’t do it anymore, as hilarious as the testerical hissy fits are.
saajanpatel
/ February 22, 2012I think Newton deserves credit for being classy, on topic, and informative:
http://markcnewton.com/2012/02/09/efforts-to-avoid-racefail/
Emil Söderman
/ February 23, 2012^ I expected Isaac…
Zach Rosenberg
/ February 23, 2012Come on. You expected ISAAC Newton to be classy?
elodieunderglass
/ June 25, 2012I was just thinking about this blog as I wrote an Angry Blog Post – I admire your capacity for Literary Rage, it’s really magnificent, I don’t know how you keep it up – and stumbling upon that link to the flash fiction I wrote… well, it warmed my withered little heart with a pretty yellow ember. Wow, I didn’t know you liked it so much. You’re super lovely!
acrackedmoon
/ June 26, 2012<3